Published On: Wed, Feb 5th, 2014

How to End Insurgency in Kashmir

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In the case of Kashmir, if we identify the Center of Gravity of the Population, we will see instead of a set of ‘pro-insurgent minority, a pro-government minority and a neutral majority’ in the cases of both Mizo and Naga uprisings in Assam, a contrasting ‘non-neutral majority favoring the insurgents’ to be found.

Insurgency in Kashmir, Kashmir Militancy

Namrata Goswami wrote an interesting article in the Small Wars Journal, analyzing India’s stride in its counter-insurgencies, particularly in its Northeast against the Mizo and Naga insurgencies. Her article concludes that ‘popular legitimacy and population support’ are the most critical factors for optimal counter-insurgency outcomes.

Gathering from a wide study, she elaborates the best practices for making counter-insurgency successful. These have been summarized below, with a slight explanation of each as I understood them:

-Primacy of Political Goals (counter-political-webbing in the socio-political network of the population harboring the insurgents)

-Centre of Gravity – Population (trying to win the support of the neutral majority as opposed to the minority support for either the insurgents or the counter-insurgents)

-Counter-Propaganda (to resonate the counter-argument ‘the government is the real savior of the people’, as opposed to the insurgents’ slogans of being their saviors)

-Resolute Leadership (with a clear conceptual broad based understanding of the counter-insurgency mission, with national priorities in clear perspective, ethical role-model and one that will synchronize the work of all agencies)

-Intelligence (on-ground information about the people, place and problem)

-Unity of Effort (in politics, military, agencies, media, police, etc.)

-Appropriate Force Structures (using force restrictively, while maintaining its superiority, and working in people-centric ways)

-Rule of Law (counter-insurgency forces to practice highest legal standards)

-Operational Clarity (in diagnosis of the problem, flexibility in action, clarity of task allocation, and aim of counter-insurgency, which is to control and secure the people).

Interestingly, this analysis is based on the insurgency problems India is facing in its own states, which essentially share the broader Hindu culture, and where the slogans of the insurgents have mainly been ethnic, socio-economic and political. Even so, the writer concludes that political corruption and the absence of resolute leaders at the local level, the army’s continuous questioning of its counter-insurgency mandate, lack of coordination in intelligence gathering, and lack in assessing public perceptions, all have been factors that have added to the prolongation of insurgencies in these areas, turning them into ‘multiple insurgencies with competing interests, seeking to maximize their own influence and survival’, and making the borders of Nagaland and Myanmar ‘porous and subject to heavy insurgent traffic’, importing threats to neighboring provinces and even states. But how does this compare with the insurgencies in Kashmir?

As pointed out by the author, it is true that each insurgency may have its own uniqueness based on the culture and socio-economy of the people that have allowed the insurgent group to harbor between them. Even as we try to assimilate different insurgencies in Pakistan, we find no or very little correlation between them. Many insurgent groups in the north of Pakistan that have taken root in the aftermaths of 9/11 pose to be of ‘extreme religious ideology’, trying to win legitimacy on ‘pan-Islamic’ bases. This very contrast of a ‘broad-based ideology’ as opposed to the northeast Indian insurgencies which were ethnical in root, with a slogan to secure the interests of their own people at the most, raises the need of questioning the ability of a people, considered as a most deprived part of our country, to have crossed the walls of their immediate, primary needs and have jumped to an ideological, revolutionary need in their outset. This also contrasts with the prior history of militant groups that have held ground in Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan, some under ethnic or linguistic slogans, some with separatist aims, some as an umbrella for different criminal activities, and some branding themselves as saviors of Kashmir; an immediate issue at their borders.

Yet, each kind of insurgency, if dealt under the guiding principles Namrata has gathered, needs to be assessed uniquely; evaluating the mindset of the people who would rise up to radicalization; of those who immediately surround them; and those who, being the majority of the population, have not taken to eliminate them with power. It has to be assessed how the ‘idea’ that dawned upon a single individual, gained acceptance within the immediate group, how the idea changed shape with each successor, and how several psychological, social, economic and fund factors made the groups what they are today. It has to be assessed if a criminal mindset, which is already a radical, has masked itself with ethnic or ideological reasoning; or has an altruistic mindset, struggling for the betterment of a section of society, been hijacked by criminal inclinations in time. And it has to be decided that the insurgent is always bad, insofar as it breaks the law of the country, breaches the writ of the government and therefore its sovereignty, and plays havoc with the lives and peace of the community. But, at the same time, it has to be accepted that the difference between a criminal gang and an insurgency is the latter possessing a self-acclaimed legitimate basis, which if ‘just’ will not be curbed down with force alone but with real time deliverance of the issues they address. And only if their legitimacy is fake can the majority of the population be brought to support the counter-insurgent’s point of view, and only then the use of limited warfare can be carried out without the fear of mass agitation from the general populace.

How does the uniqueness of Kashmir and its insurgent groups fit in the best practices of counter-insurgency chalked above?

Emphasizing on the Primacy of Political Goals, Namrata says that ‘Politics provides the frame of reference in counter-insurgency’, that while the military’s role is supportive, ‘counter-insurgency has to be 100 per cent political, with commanders even at the lowest level conceiving of it as “political warfare”’. The reason for the political approach is to find means of gaining the support of the neutral majority, and prevent it from swaying towards pro-insurgency in ideology and in providing them with safe havens, where livelihood and progress can be ensured. Even though counter-insurgency work in Kashmir has maneuvered in the political setting of the state to some success, and several political parties that had started with a separatist agenda have been slowly subdued to a more submissive stance, where now they denounce violent means to achieve their goal of self-determination and want to work in terms of negotiations; but it is also notable that once a party proves to be pro-India, it swiftly loses popularity and trust among the general masses, forcing it into the pro-counter-insurgency minority population. Syed Ali Geelani, in a very recent interview, reported:

‘There is a use of power and wit to low down the zeal to fight for truth. The ones who easily give in are lured by scholarship of state, employment, trips, etc., and are deshelled of the vigour they harbour to fight for Jammu and Kashmir.’ (Source)

Therefore, one of the counter-insurgency best practices seems to be working fine here, but along with this political maneuvering, an effective Counter-Propaganda was necessary, as winning individuals or parties will not do if the majority population does not accept the counter-insurgency’s ideological legitimacy. But, more so, Namrata has clearly warned that an alternative ideology must be followed by quick practical remedies. She says, ‘exaggerating capabilities, promising goods to the population, offering political empowerment have to be followed up with deliverables within a short span of time. Failure to do so would discredit the counter-insurgency forces’.

One such exaggeration was observed in 2012, when Rahul Gandhi visited Kashmir with an entourage of top business icon from India, including Chairman Tata Group – Ratan Tata, Chairman Aditya Birla Group – Kumar Mangalam, Chairman HDFC Ltd. – Deepak Parekh, Chairman Bajaj Auto Ltd. – Rajeev Bajaj and MD & CEO Team Lease – Ashok Reddy; but no big industry has yet unveiled in Kashmir to date. The roads and railway lines which are prerequisite to industry are meager with a road length of 127/1000 sq km and railway lines of 0.40/1000 sq km as per a 2001 planning commission report, and a ‘6.50 lakh unemployed youth registered with various Employment and Counseling centers’ in 2013, according to Economic Times.

In the case of Kashmir, if we identify the Center of Gravity of the Population, we will see instead of a set of ‘pro-insurgent minority, a pro-government minority and a neutral majority’ in the cases of both Mizo and Naga uprisings in Assam, a contrasting ‘non-neutral majority favoring the insurgents’ to be found. Perhaps it can be compared that at one time the Mizo majority too stood with the insurgents and supported independence from India, but that was when the Army had been brought in for rigorous action, and when later, the Army action was decreased and a political settlement had been reached, the majority again became stable along with the pacification of the movement; meaning that it can be generally expected of a majority population to act unsatisfied and unstable as long as heavy military is deployed in their midst. Therefore, the question comes out to be whether the counter-insurgents, i.e., the Indian Army in Kashmir, have the capability to forge a political settlement with the insurgents, in a way that their grievances are delivered in real-time, and make the majority believe through political webbing, propaganda or development projects that the Indian government will surely bring about the peace and progress that the insurgents offer in their ideology.

For such a political primacy, the Indian government and its military force should have to act not only with a Unity of Effort, but surely this effort should be projecting itself in a way that the population should ‘feel secure and safe’. To achieve such a consensus, Namrata warns that the military activity should be restricted to the ‘least possible’, focusing more on a show of deterrence and very less in active small-wars, while allowing time for the government to make a counter political web within the people and for its institutions to develop healthy working relations with them. Therefore, the maths between the insurgents and the counter-insurgents must be such that the former must be using force to destroy life and property just to create fear, while the latter must be using the least force and that also in the most lawful manner so that they should be recognized only as the flag bearers of the Rule of Law.

If so, it seems obvious that the Indian state and its counter-insurgency force have long been treading a path to failure. They have used force freely to keep a majority population harassed and in fear throughout the time that they have held government there, making Kashmir the most highly militarized place in the world. They have used that force in the most illegal ways, breaking the civil standards of their own law and the human right standards acclaimed throughout the world. Without doubt, uncountable details of the gruesome harassments, rapes, tortures, extrajudicial murders, ruthless interrogation centers have been recorded by many human right organizations, brought up in the UN council and printed on the hearts and minds of the Kashmiri majority population. It must be true that the insurgents must be breaking the law too, holding some fear factor in the people around them and must have destroyed the life and property of the people; but when compared with the over 1.2 million Indian Armed Forces against a few hundred or perhaps five to ten thousand insurgents, who operate in hiding and do not have any defined fortified sanctuaries, it is common sense to judge who holds the real fear-card in the Kashmiri populace.

Along with political oneness and clarity of idea in all state entities, and appropriate allocation of tasks in different limbs of the counter-insurgency, it should be able to show a Resolute Leadership. This requires to have ‘national priorities and goals in clear perspective’, with the counter-insurgency maintaining the highest ‘ethical model’. It seems as if the military factor of the counter-insurgency is really just a camouflage and the real effort is to win the people by talks, promises and revival of the livelihoods by developmental works, patching the deprivations of the people with new hopes that come with schools, medical centers and new industry, etc. In Kashmir, however, there is a paradox – do the ‘national priorities’ go headwinds with the needs and wishes of the majority population? Kashmir is an information-locked state; movement is often restricted between districts and even neighborhoods; trade and industry predominantly small-scale; there is lack of professional institutions/universities and no jobs for the graduates.

The Global Peace Index Report 2013 (pg. 52) identifies several indicators that help to measure peace and stability in a country/society, one of which is the military expenditure as a percentage of GDP, and another is the number of armed-services personnel per 100,000 people and so on. Interestingly, Haseeb Drabu, ex-chairman J&K Bank (2005-10) and economic advisor to the state government (2004-09), in an interview in 2011, said:

‘There’s the economy of J&K and there is the Government of J&K. The Government of J&K is completely dependent on the Government of India. The economy of J&K is not dependent at all on the economy of India, or on the Government of India, except, of course, that there are trade relations. There is normal transactional business. Fruit is exported. There are also imports from the rest of the country. ….then there is a fostered dependence, which has been created in the system over the years. So the government was not obliged to raise resources to fund itself. This is the best way to keep a government in control’.

Which means that not only has India made Kashmir the most heavily militarized zone in the world with 3,37,000 army personnel there, i.e., one trooper over every 18 persons, but it has actually made it its permanent policy to keep it that way by keeping the government totally unrelated with the affairs of the people. This kills the best policies of counter-insurgency collected by Namrata altogether, as such a chaining of Kashmir’s state authorities in chains of gold is, at the same time, undermining the rules of operational clarity, appropriation of task, unity in effort and resolute leadership; as all these four fail to reach the majority population of Kashmir, with a permanent disconnect between the populace, as their Chief Minister therefore behaves more as a servant of the state of India than an elected representative of the populace of Kashmir. And this has encouraged the primacy of politics, intelligence and rule of law to be used as weapons against the majority populace instead of making them tools to make society safe, secure, peaceful and prosperous; which leads to counter-propaganda failing upon the people.

Indian failure to confront the issue of insurgency in Kashmir has eventually aggravated the issue, making what might be called an insurgency in 1947 into a freedom movement, more deep rooted in the hearts and minds of the people of Kashmir with every passing year and decade. This failure is surely based on India’s approach of not taking Kashmir as part of its own from day one; the Kashmir insurgency has not been treated as those of Mizo or Naga, with some give and take and more power resting with those provinces in the end, and the separation of Nagaland. Nor did India learn to retreat its forces from Kashmir, as it did for the Mizo.

In fact, bad practices have lost India its right to call itself a counter-insurgent at all; for a group of people harassing the people, breaking the law, obstructing justice, and becoming a barrier in the progress and development works meant for the people is the ’Insurgent’ not the Counter-Insurgent. And if at all you call it so, for all the undue atrocities and injustice that the people have suffered every day, the state of insurgency has become so bad that it might not be quelled till the last mind thinks and the last heart beats in Kashmir; if hearts and minds count at all!

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About the Author

- is the Editor at PKKH.tv and can be contacted via info@pakistankakhudahafiz.com, and you can also find her at Aneela Shahzad’s Blog or tweet to her @AneelaShahzad

Displaying 67 Comments
Have Your Say
  1. Abul Hakkim says:

    Terrorism activity center is POK sending terrorist in part of kashmir under india.Pakistan lost all wars against india now start another type of war by sending terroists in kashmir.They even not save their own peoples killed by american army.Why pakistan not trying to get Bangladesh as their part of country

    • Imran says:

      We broke you in 1947 then took half of Kashmir the next year. Indeed despite being much smaller in size we have won much from you. In 1965 we broke your backs as well. After 26/11 your cowardice was again exposed when you were unable to take any action.

      In the 1930’s you said Pakistan will never be a reality well today it is staring you on the face threatening to nuke you as well. Why don’t you come and take AJK if you are the son’s of your fathers?? We will continue to support the freedom fighters in IOK while you Bharati Muslims in India are treated like excrement.

      • Aseem says:

        in 1947 not you but the british partitioned us. You took kashmir not from India but from Maharaja. After Maharaja acceded kashmir to India, you were pushed back by indian army when UN announced ceasefire. Indian army almost captured Lahore in 1965 despite its debacle with china 3 years ago and you know what happenned in 1971 and 1999.

        After 26/11, you very well see how you are on your knees begging to talk to us to resolve the bilateral issues. In 1930 whoever said Pakistan will never be a reality but today Indians feel it was a good riddance. No one is scared of your nukes. you are scared that india and israel should not destroy your nuke weapons which israel will eventually do. talking of small country, look at israel and look at the entire arab world. they could not do a thing to israel.

        Once Balochistan becomes independent PoK will request India to take it in its fold. Ask your own prominent journalists, Indian muslims are treated better than Shias and Baloch muslims are treated in Pakistan.

        • 321 says:

          where is the instrument of accession? oh wait you guys “lost” it lol. it was india who went running to the UN in the first place not us. we recovered half of kashmir.

          ” Ask your own prominent journalists”

          …indian funded geo?

          • aditya says:

            Pakistan is the worst country. You idiot’s just can’t manage ur own country.
            if India will piss you pakistani were vanished in flood:))

    • Alansaralhaq says:

      We invite the world to Azad Kashmir, we Kashmiris call it free Kashmir because aour sisters do not live in fear of abduction and rape.

      Children freely go to and fro school, young and old are not indiscriminately killed by filthy Hindu soldiers whi kill with impunity treating Kashmiris as target practice driven by religious hatred towards Muslims linked to Hindu fanatics.

      Let the world’s media be judge come to Azad Kashmir we a renot held hostage by 700,000 filthy soldiers from the dirty Ganges occupying the beautiful Indus Valley.

      We are the same culture, langauge, ethnciity, history, geography as the rest of The Indus Valley namely pakistan therefore have zero issue with our brethren but have no such affilaition for the foreigners from the Ganges plains in our lands.

      • Aseem says:

        if lakhs of dirty ganges people have spoiled so much of kashmir, why no one has left kashmir?
        when Israel captured Palestine, palestinians fled to other arab countries.
        when Pakistanis raped bangladeshi women and did genocide there, 10 million refugees entered india.
        when soviets occupied Afghanistan, millions of afghans took refuge in India and pakistan.
        When Rohingya’s were targeted in Myanmar, they took refuge in bangladesh and india.

        Then why kashmiris are not taking refuge in pakistan when they are being so called “raped” and killed by “hindu” soldiers??? That means its a blatant lie. there is no rape, no killing no atrocities by Indian army rather they are praised by kashmiris for their humanitarian efforts.

        If kashmiris did not support india and indian army they would have been freed like Bangladesh. But its the kashmiris who in 1965 and 1999 informed indian armies of paki infiltration. International community has realised that kashmir problem is nothing but a Pak propaganda. Mr. Haq, you are paid by pakistanis to keep the issue alive which is detrimental to kashmiris.

        Why I said come to Kashmir because in 2012 1.3 million tourists came there, more than the tourists in pakistan. in 2014 its expected that 2 million tourists will visit Kashmir. Please tell me how many people go to PoK?

        I wrote a comment under “I am Kashmir” poetry, please read it and judge for yourself if kashmiris are doing better in India or the ones in Pakistan.

        Please tell me what do you have in common with baloch? what do you have common with Sindhis? what do you have common with Punjabis and Pakhtoons? And what do you have common with Arabs and Iranians? If only islam is common then Balochistan, Sind, Pakhtoonistan deserve to be an independent nation like Iran and Saudi Arabia. What do you have common with the Mohajirs??? they are all from lower ganges and speak urdu…. no punjabi, kashmiri or sindhi… Are they orphans of Jinnah??? If you are so conscious of your white skin, then why do you want black skinned people to become a Muslim? You are a racist maniac who hate people on the basis of their skin color and belief. Good that you live in Pakistan and please be remain confined to that failed state.

        • Imran says:

          Rather after Khalistan, Assam and Goa become independent the story or urine drinking Bharatis will come to an end. Remember, you have the highest number of insurgencies in any one country as well as the most prostitutes and AIDS victims.

          After 26/11 it was cleary Bharat that was afraid to go to war caught unprepared with their pants down. I still recall when our jets chased you out of our skies then you suddenly wanted peace! Again you were screaming like pigs when we supposedly beheaded your terrorist soldiers, again your threats came to nothing.

          We see in Muzaffarnagar, IOK, Gujarat and the demolition of your Babri how “better” you are treated when your sisters are raped on the streets. Everyone knows that you are treated worse then the untouchable Dalit’s. Even a Shabana Azmi can not buy a home in Bharat due to her Muslim identity.

          You could not end our existence and are terrified of the Sino-Pak alliance that gives you nightmares. Attack us if you dare then see how we make mince meat or you urine drinkers, we will not hesitate to nuke you if the need occurs.

          In 1999 we humiliated you in Kargil that even you own generals accept where as in 1965 we defended Lahore. Those Bharatis who planned to dine in Lahore never ate again, we made sure of that! In 1962 the Chinese beat you up like their daddy and continue to do so. We are not afraid of you or Israel so bring it on if you dare and we’ll see who is lion and who is mouse.

          Your Abdul Kalam could not stop Pakistan from being formed. He was a coward Hindu boot licker happy to live the existence of a slave. It’s a well documented fact that M A Jinnah created Pakistan not the British who certainly wanted no such thing on earth that would not be to their benefit! You have obviously been drinking to much cow urine so have lost your senses!

          I have seen many foreigners in Pakistan including Kashmir as well. If people in IOK are so happy you would not have half a million terrorist soldiers terrifying them. I am afraid Pakistan will continue to support the Jihadis no matter what you do or think forcing you to waste millions that could be used much better on other tasks.

          You don’t worry of what Pakistanis have common with each other, Islam binds us together. On the contrary most Indian’s have nothing in common with each other after all a person in Delhi can’t relate to someone in Assam whatsoever. They come from different cultures, languages and religions so may as well come from different planets as well.

          India is the most racist society on the planet where dark skinned people are treated as sub human. Just the other day such a person was killed in Delhi I believe, similarly like Nigerians are being harassed in Goa. You are also the rape capital of the world where no lady is safe from a 100 years age gran to a nine year old kid.

          Pak did not rape any Bangladeshi women rather it was your terrorist soldiers dressed as Pakistanis who committed these crimes just like they are doing in Kashmir today. Just like your Hindu brothers raped your sisters on the streets of Gujarat!

          The reason Kashmirs are not taking refuge in Pakistan is because it’s near impossible to cross the LOC! Simple logic that a urine drinking Bharati would not be able to understand! With insurgency, rape and racism everywhere and Modi set to become you next PM just wait and see how he creates massive civil war in your country. If Shabana Azmi or Shahrukh Khan are currently crying discrimination soon they will have a lot more to worry over.

          • Aseem says:

            tch tch tch…. despite all your verbal diarrhoea, we Indians are still far better than you guys in every field…

            i dont understand how can pakistanis call their military defeats a victory??? 65, 71, 99 thrice you were thrashed by indian army but you teach your kids otherwise. thats why we call you a failed nation, a nation in perennial denial, a nation based on lies etc etc… Indians graciously accept their military debacle against China in 1962… becoz we were caught off guard and attacked completely unexpected.

            You will never understand the essence of Indian nationalism because you dont understand, democracy, liberalism, secularism and pluralism. Thats our strength and thats holding us together. If Islam was such a binding factor, Bangladesh would still be with you.

          • Ali Ahmed says:

            I think imran is urine drinker use the word urine again and again.Tech all pakistanis the same if the water is stopped to pakistan this is useful.d

        • 321 says:

          hahaha what a blatant lie. kashmiris aren’t praising your terrorist soldiers. they’re cursing them. go take a look at kashmiri websites. they in fact DON’T support you. you’re living in gaga land if you think otherwise.

          “what do you have in common with baloch? what do you have common with Sindhis?…..If you are so conscious of your white skin, then why do you want black skinned people to become a Muslim?”

          LOL what? what does this have to do with anything? is your head on right?

          • Aseem says:

            @321, anyone can open a website and spread propaganda. All anti indian websites are maintianed by pakistanis, so its not a big deal. My comments on baloch sindhi and skin color was meant for Mr. Alansaralhaq who cliams himself to be a champion of kashmiri muslims who has been aking racist comments against dark skinned people from Lower Ganges. World knows that the same lower ganges people (now Bangladesh) fought for their freedom from you and won. This also defeated the so called concept of 2-nation theory that Islam could be a reason for nationalism. if that was so, Bangladesh would still be part of Pakistan and Baloch wont be asking for freedom from Pakistan.

          • 321 says:

            weak excuse. it exposes indian acts in kashmir so it’s pakistani. same could be said for the opposite side. you keep saying that this proves that islam can’t be used to create a separate country. this is true if you put nationalism ahead of islam. what do you expect? and that is what happened in 1971. in the case of balochistan most balochis don’t want to separate so take that out of your mind.

  2. Interesting analysis and very true. My vote is with the author!

  3. Abul Hakkim says:

    Why pakistan is not try to again add the part of bangladesh as part of pakistan reason banglesh muslims hate pakistan. Wait for some time like bangladesh Baloch and sindh will be free from pakistan and americans.

    • 321 says:

      most balochis love pakistan and have themselves said that they don’t want to separate so good luck. and bangalis and pakistanis are now on fairly pleasant terms unless you’re a hasina lackey.

      • Aseem says:

        Pakistan was hardly ever a democracy that people will speak their mind. Baloch are fighting for their freedom ever since Pak army forcefully grabbed it in its fold in 1947. Unlike Kashmir where the fight is between India and Pakistan, in Balochistan its between Pakis and Balochs.

        And please tell bangladeshis to join you back if they feel so good about you. They are progressing fast leaving pakistan behind in every field.

        • 321 says:

          what kind of history are you learning in india? the balochis WILLINGLY agreed to join pakistan. and most balochis by far today don’t want to separate. did i say i wanted bangalis to join. i said that they’re on fairly civil if not pleasant terms unless of course they’re a hasina and her party’s lackey.

  4. khalid khan says:

    PAKISTAN SHAMELESS COUNTRY Pakistan has sold Kashmir to China PAKISTAN SHAMELESS COUNTRY.INDIA GIVE $ 25 MILLION DOLLARS FOR FLOOD VICTIMS AND PAKISTAN USING INDIAN MONEY AGAINST INDIA.PAKISTAN IS BEGGING IN FRONT OF USA LIKE SON ASKS MONEY FROM DADDY DADDY USA DADDY USA GIVE ME SOME MONEY I WANNA GIVE IT TO INSURGENTS IN KASHMIR.PAKISTAN TAKING BEGGING MONEY FROM ALL THE WORLD AND USING AGAINST INDIA SENDING MILITANTS.PAKISTAN A BEGGAR COUNTRY SHAMELESS COUNTRY

  5. Alansaralhaq says:

    Why should Kashmiris leave their heritage and homeland.
    You have displaced a million since 1948 and a million plus since Hindu Dogra occupation,

    The dirty Ganges civilisation is destroying the most beautiful Kashmir you have no place in Kashmir take your aboriginal behinds out if Kashmir.

    Bangladeshis hate India more today douche bags and Bangladeshis UNLIKE Kashmiris are not The Indus Valley ( Pakistan ) there should never have been East Pakistan. Subsequently the very fact there was East Pakistan Bengali Muslims if modern Bangladesh did not meet the fate of Assam and were not forcibly merged with the horrid Hindu Union known today as India.

    Bangladeshis are a separate people , history and geography to Pakistanis who were robbed off their wealth, heritage and power by Hindus allied to the British. Bangladesh had to be created and it’s destiny us to become The Islamic State if Bangladesh and will do so without any Pakistani or other Muslim intervention.

    From Islamic Bangladesh to Bangistan.

    In the UK Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are very close even inter marriage and realise the architect if their divide was India. Sure we are two people two states but we are Muslims and nobody can ever separate us from the Ummah of Rasool Allah (SAW) a nation that us 1.4 billion strong.

    • Aseem says:

      Kashmiris must not leave their homeland. My comments were just to prove that there is no atrocity on kashmiri muslims in India. At one place you talk about heritage and homeland and at another you want aboriginals out of kashmir. Hope its not the effect of opium.

      Please tell me where are those 2 million displaced kashmiris living? 2 million kashmiris displaced over a period of 165 years… What you are saying now for the bangladeshis, you should have said this before 1971. You abused people of lower ganges and dark skinned and when cornered you call them from Ummah. such a double character you are. Even indians marry pakistanis and bangladeshis and that too without going to UK.

      If ummah of prophet (saw) could unite muslims then why muslims fight each other? why there is separate Pakistan, India and Bangladesh? Why no muslim is supporting their brothers in Uighur? Why fair skinned muslims hate dark skinned muslims? Why mohajirs are unacceptable in Pakistan? Why Shias and sunnis fight? If indus valley is a reason for being one nation, why there are so many arab nations? they should be one nation as they all speak arabic, follow sunni islam, eat, dress in same way.

      Haq Sa’ab its all politics. Pakistan gives you money to blog, so you will continue to keep the issue alive, no matter to you if it brings death and dakness to kashmiri children. you will recruit poor pakistanis from other areas like Ajmal Kasab to fight as militant in India but you will ensure your son becomes a leader and travel the world collecting money in the name of kashmir and jihad. If you are happy in PoK, please let the indian kashmiris too live in peace.

      • 321 says:

        “If ummah of prophet (saw) could unite muslims then why muslims fight each other? ”

        i suspected you’re a secularist. no wonder you keep coming up with this same lame argument. it’s called putting ethnic or nationalistic pride over everything else. EXACTLY what YOU are doing. instead of supporting your muslim brothers and sisters (if you are indeed even a muslim) you are ignoring their plight all to defend your so-called “shining” india.

        • Aseem says:

          You still did not answer the question above.
          Do you support your muslim brothers and sisters of India?
          Did Jinnah cared a bit about muslims who were left behind in India?
          You should ask this question to Jinnah and yourself.

          • 321 says:

            i wasn’t aware that i was being asked a question since it wasn’t directed at me. however yes i do care for muslims in india. why wouldn’t i? unlike you i don’t put nationalistic prejudices ahead of religion. also i have indian muslim and hindu friends. in other words your nationality doesn’t bother me. only the actions of your government and the fact that some of you are so brainwashed.

            and how would i know if jinnah cared for someone? how do you expect me to ask him? do you want me to somehow bring him back from the dead? in any case, considering that he wanted a country for muslims, anyone can assume that he must have been disappointed that not everyone decided to move. and he probably cared for them if he did all that work to give them a separate country.

  6. Alansaralhaq says:

    Kashmiris, Sindhis, Punjabis and Pashtuns are the Indus Valley Civilisation we are one people and an live amongst each other.

    Place us into India and we do not look the same, have affiliation nor synergy with your kind.

    Our languages are superior to the Ganges people, our cultures are superior, our etiquette and honour is superior and our sense of brotherhood and nationhood is superior.

    I am Kashmiri nit paid by anyone but have love for Kashmir, for Islam and fir the noble vision if Pakistan. Pakistan is the name for the Indus Valley people and are united through this great history and share ethnicity, language, traditions with all and most importantly our Islamic faith.

    The only thing Bangladeshis have in common with us is faith and every true Muslim knows the Ummah of Rasool Allah is binding and unifying.

    I will repeat with no hidden agenda, I have zero affiliation with Indian language culture and people other than reminiscing on all WE have left behind which becomes our rich Islamic legacy and your history beyond this truly have ZERO love for you in the way I love Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi, Turkey, Indonesia and even Bangladesh.

    I have been to India and loved what our forefathers built and is part of your history and took little interest in anything else because Pakistani cuisine, culture is far superior.

    • Aseem says:

      If you are so obsessed with Indus Valley please rename your country as India. You are talking as if Muslims are a difference race. In india also there are people who speak punjabi and sindhi and urdu. As far as the superiority of your language and culture is concerned its very well reflected in what you write here. We are better off being inferiors but we will never use filthy unparliamentary language. Our parents and teachers have not taught such a dirty language.

      Please tell Iranians, Saudis and indonesians that Pakistani culture and cuisine is superior. they will give you a damn with a capital D. By the way Mr. Haq you sound very racist which is against the tenets of Islam. Islam stands for equality and brotherhood without any consideration for caste, color of skin, race or cuisine.

      We Indians dont need your love or attention or certificate. We know how much you love balochs, shias, mohajirs, tajiks, ujbeks, bangladeshis etc etc and how much they and talibans love you.

  7. Alansaralhaq says:

    Let the world visit Azad Kashmir as it us open to the world but WHY does the world not have access to Indian brutally occupied Kashmir.

    Why are Azad Kashmiris living without fair, in occupation freely living their lives and in a Occupied Kashmir dying daily by Hindu bullets.

    Aseem you can not comprehend but the truth is we love Pakistan I refer to race and ethnicity to show the world a dirty at angels culture and people occupy the beautiful Indus that is Kashmir. I am not racist to anyone but to Indians as YOU are complicit in the misery and massacre if a Kashmiris.

    I have no malice towards Indians merely respond to your poisonous lies and deceit.

    Yes Bangladesh is lower Ganges but the dirty culture I refer to is the Hindu culture that has polluted the Ganges and now destroys Kashmir. Ganges flows “down” it Bangladesh polluted by the Hindu regions of a india of the lower basin.

    • Aseem says:

      Despite “so called” rapes and genocide of millions and millions of kashmiris by indian soldiers, the world visits Indian kashmir and i gave the numbers also that is more than 13,00,000 in a year. but despite peace and prosperity and beauty and culture of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, no one visits you. WHY? because you lie about Indian kashmir sitting in PoK.

      Mr. Haq, since you are born and brought up in Pakistan, you are a Pakistani and you must love your nation like I am an Indian and I love my India without any prejudice to the caste, culture, race, skin color of my fellow indians. And Kashmiris too love being Indian and they are contributing in a big way to the progress of their nation i.e. India. You are a man full of hatred, so much of hatred that perhaps you wont even know what love is.

      Once again I repeat that the reverred Deobandi and Barelvi schools of Islam are located in the “filthy” gangetic basin. the same schools that teaches you the meanings of Quran.

  8. Alansaralhaq says:

    Apologies at the typo…

    Let the world visit Azad Kashmir as it us open to the world but WHY does the world not have access to Indian brutally occupied Kashmir. Why are Azad Kashmiris living without FEAR, WITHOUT occupation freely living their lives and in a Occupied Kashmir, Kashmiris are dying daily by Hindu bullets.

    Aseem you can not comprehend but the truth is we love Pakistan I refer to race and ethnicity to show the world a dirty culture and people occupy the beautiful Indus that is Kashmir. I am not racist to anyone but to Indians I will say each and every one of you YOU are complicit in the misery and massacre of Kashmiris.

    I have no malice towards Indians merely respond to your poisonous lies and deceit. Yes Bangladesh is lower Ganges but the dirty culture I refer to is the Hindu culture that has polluted the Ganges and now destroys Kashmir. Ganges flows “down” TO Bangladesh polluted by the Hindu regions of Indians.

    What pollutes the Ganges ?

    Dirty practices and culture of these people that WE have no comprehension of and find abhorrent but you live in your land so you are welcome to it BUT do not destroy OUR INDUS.

  9. Alansaralhaq says:

    It is simple Aseem son of The Ganges.

    Put your money where your mouth is.

    Give Kashmiris the right to self determination under a UN auspice or continue to be complicit in their murder and rape.

    Ignoring their cries of pain and anguish.

    Do not try to be prgmatic while ignoring Kashmiri injustice, the cries of young and old at the hands of an attrocious vile despicable army.

    I am Pakistani because Pakistan is the Indus Valley of today or the heir of the Mughal Empire and Kashmir and the rest of Kashmir is our unfinished revolution.

    I can not ignore and will not ignore the cries of Kashmiris, the injustice they suffer at the hands of a Hindu army.

    The difference being to you kashmir is geopolitical for me it is a part of my existence and fibre, my family my blood.

    My words may sting you and unerve you but these are words of passion, love and solidarity for Kashmiris suffering to whcih I belong.

    Kashmiris are ONE on either side and even if Pakistan for a blip in it’s history becomes wayward in it’s approach to Kashmir – WE WILL REMIND them.

    Kashmir we love, Kashmiris we are, Azadi for all is our end goal.

    “Akh tee akh gae kaah” ( we are united and this is our strength)

    “kh’da-yi seenz khaar tee nah-ydee sinz tsheph” (Indian Occupation is catastrophe on a people who were already suffering Hindu Dogra opression and occupation)

    “ta-bas chu la-b” Kashmiris are patient but never silent, we have faith and will be delviered too.

    Kashmir without Kashmiris is hell remember this, you can never find peace if you seek to remove Kashmiris or Kashmiriyat out of Kashmir.

    We are Kashmir and Kashmir is ours and never can be yours willfully and force will never make you victorious.

  10. Aseem says:

    Pakistanis are taught in their schools and syllabus to hate india and other religions. In India we teach our children to love all humans and respect all religions. We dont teach our children to use filthy, dirty, abusive language. We teach them to respect humans even if they are enemy.
    If you are so proud of the beauty and greenery of Indus Valley, then you would be hating the holy places because they are located in almost desert. There is hardly any water and greenery in the Arab world. You are a religious fanatic Mr. Haq and you should be ignored.
    Your blogs are full of lies and meant for the brainwashed morons who will never question its authenticity. Please provide the statistics and its source to support your statement of daily killings and rape. Else accept that you are misleading and misguiding your people to get emotionally charged and join the depleting gangs of militants and your inflow of donations continues.

    • 321 says:

      “n India we teach our children to love all humans and respect all religions.”

      LOL this anyone can tell is a massive lie.

      • Aseem says:

        Read the comments of all Indians and others, you will yourself notice the difference between the language they use. A nations character is noticed how the majority behaves. The majority in Pakistan has least regards for secularism whereas in India its the national value and I am proud to be an Indian.

        • 321 says:

          i have seen the type of language from indians and i can say i’m not impressed. you’re a hypocrite. also i could care less about secularism. it’s blatant shirk. a real muslim would be ashamed of supporting it. also looking at hindu on muslim/christian violence (and possibly the other way around as well) in addition to prejudice against muslims, it’s safe to say that india doesn’t practice what it preaches. the butcher of gujrat is the most popular candidate in the election. india can act secular all it wants. what actually happens inside the country shows that it’s mostly talk.
          proud to be indian? cool story? i’m proud to be a muslim first and pakistani second.

          • Aseem says:

            does tat mean the muslims living in non-muslim countries are not real muslims? There are 1.5 billion muslims and 5.5 billion mushrik or kuffar. how does it matter to a believer?

            You are a proud muslim but you will be against sharia law (so am I) and i am sure you would be a proud punjabi, sindi or pashtun before you are proud of being a Pakistani. does not matter even i am proud of my religion, nation, ethnicity and mother tongue and there is nothing like first and second. so far i have never come across a situation where i have to decide between my religion, nation or ethnicity.
            regarding what india teaches and practices, i agree there would be gaps but at least we teach the right things.

          • 321 says:

            putting words into my mouth? did i say the weren’t muslim? i said secularism itself is shirk and muslims should not participate in it. most however don’t know that.

            i’m not against sharia law. it depends on the interpretation implemented. for example i do not agree to the extremist version.

            also you clearly didn’t understand my point. i said i’m proud to be a muslim first and pakistani second b/c that is what my religion demands. brotherhood in islam trumps ethnic bonds. go read the stories of the sahaba (Ra). go read the story of Nuh and Lut (As). they are prime examples of this principle.

            “where i have to decide between my religion, nation or ethnicity”

            actually you have. and you’ve chosen nationalism over religion. quite disappointing.

  11. Ali Ahmed says:

    Alansaralhaq why selg determination under a UN auspice pakistan is under control& depend on UN not india.First save pakistanis from UN army killing in home country than think about kashmir.

  12. Alansaralhaq says:

    A free an fair referendum obliging and implementing the UN resolution under a UN auspice is the only solution or Kashmiris continue to face their misery and genocide which will ultimately lead to an insurgency and bloodshed.

    Implement the uN resolution under a UN auspice..

    It is clear India is incapable of resolving and does not wish to listen to popular Kashmiri sentiment.

  13. Ali Ahmed says:

    pakistan lost all war against india and learnt a lession as not possible to win against india and started terroist activity in kashmir.If this terroist activity is stopped actual freedom gets kashmir

    • 321 says:

      we took back half of kashmir in 1947. we threw you back over the border in 1965. we stood our ground against overwhelming indian advantage in 1971. we kicked your butts until we were forced by international pressure to retreat. all this against an indian force that since the partition has always had numerical and quality advantage. if these are losses then i’ll gladly take them.

      the only terrorist activity in kashmir is perpetrated by indian soldiers.

      • Aseem says:

        1. In 1947 you took 100% of Kalat balochistan, why did you take only half of kashmir? And how much kashmir you could take when India intervened?

        2. Who launched Op Gibraltar and Op Grand Slam in 1965? and what was the outcome?

        3. What ground you stood in 1971? You lost half your territory forever and 93000 soldiers surrendered to Indian Army.

        4. In 1999, you were a nuclear power and you were sitting on indian territories in better positions. US pressure was an excuse to get out of it. Why cant you make international pressure on India to vacate Siachin that you tried for 20 years but failed?

        5. Now, there is no infiltration in Kashmir and its peaceful. Kashmir gets more tourist than the whole of pakistan.

        By the way, we condemn terrorism by TTP. We can empathise with you.

        • 321 says:

          1) balochistan wasn’t forced to become a part of pakistan. it willingly joined. only half of kashmir was taken b/c our leaders decided to follow the UN rulings after nehru went running to them. if pakistan hadn’t listened then the tribals would have had a good chance of being successful.
          india intervened? sure ok but i don’t remember india taking back the part they lost. this was against a new army with less arms as well due to the fact that most of it went to india

          2)pakista launched it. eventual outcome? india failed to lahore and pakistan failed to take back the rest of kashmir. stalemate. and even with india having superior numbers and arms. disappointing.

          3)what ground? well considering that 45000 soldiers (not 93000) were vastly outnumbered, had been fighting for a longer period of time and unlike the indians could not replenish supplies, what they did was more than enough. of course they could have done more. the surrender was premature.

          4)what does nukes have to do with it? you got your butts kicked before international pressure made us retreat. plain and simple. deal with it.
          how does siachen compare to this? i don’t recall reading about a major fight over there. and clearly pakistan sucks at building international pressure on india. not to mention it helps to be an israeli ally. US and it’s allies won’t dare say anything to you then.

          5)there is infiltration in kashmir just not as much as before. and with 700,000 soldiers making it the most militarized zone in the world, i expect nothing less.

          6) thank you for condemning TTP. however your words will hold more credibility if you stopped supporting them and apologized for supporting them in the first place.

          • Aseem says:

            1. If you know the history about Kalat, it had actually acceded to India in 1947 but Moulana Abul Kalam Azad advised against Balochistan joining India. Later he was coerced into joining Pakistan on false promises. Please check Keran, Baramula, Uri, Punch, Rajouri,Jhanger, Naoshera etc. were occupied by Pakistan by 26th october 1947 and Indian Army landed in srinagar on 27 oct 1947. The above areas are now part of India and it did not come after Simla agreement. Pakistan army was pushed back by india and would have been further pushed back to Pakistan border if UN did not impose ceasefire. Pakistan is known for telling false history but you cant fool others by your history.
            2. You agree that your troops failed to capture Indian land in 1965 and India “failed” to capture lahore. this is amusing that not capturing Lahore amounts to india’s defeat. India fought after suffering a defeat by chinese focres in 1962 and still stopped you in your nefarious designs.
            3. No comments. Period.
            4. You occupied vacant Indian posts and you were kicked in the butt by indian forces. by the time world put pressure on you most areas were recaptured by india.
            reg. siachin, i am not surprised that you are unaware about continuous fight for 20 yrs as you are not told the right history about your govt. India set up its posts in early 1984 and you fought till 2003 when ceasefire was agreed. you have better communication by ground and yet your army failed to push us a inch back.
            5. India fenced its borders so infiltration from Pak is checked. Do you hear any violence in kashmir now? except perhaps in the J&K assembly. this is sign of peace and democracy.
            6. The govt. here will be kicked in the butt if indians come to know that anyone is supporting Taliban terrorism in Pakistan or Afghanistan. We have sufferred their terrorism and would like to see them crushed forever. Although there are voices in Pakistan that supports TTP.

          • 321 says:

            1. it willingly joined pakistan. don’t know which history you’re learning. and if you’re going to be talking about forced mergers then stop being a hypocrite and focus on your own country. it committed plenty of those. funny how you indians gloss over that and have the audacity to lecture us!
            also pakistani troops where there AFTER. indian soldiers were already in kashmir. the pakistani general didn’t even want to enter kashmir b/c he was british. i
            you talk about false history and yet you can’t even tell me how you managed to lose the very instrument of accession that you claim gives kashmir to india. LOL

            2)so you agree that you failed to capture lahore? good to know we’re making progress. it’s called a stalemate. and indians should be ashamed of it given how yoou have always had quantitative and qualitative edge

            3)i’ll take that as an admission

            4)vacant indian posts? lol you guys got a butt kicking
            siachen belonged to pakistan. india took it. it’s as simple as that. live with it

            5)i imagine being the most militraized zone in the world does do that. although at the expense of the very ppl who you don’t want to separate. and i hear the militants are pciking up their activities against the army.

            6)the problem is that you ppl DON’T know it. you’re so brainwashed and “patriotic” that you refuse to admit anything of the sort. you ppl don’t even acknowledge the fact that 26/11 was a blatant false-flag attack.

  14. 321 says:

    it never ceases to amaze me how indians are always obsessed with pakistani websites. what’s surprising now is that it’s apparently, going by their names, so-called indian muslims and not hindus that are frequenting this website. i haven’t seen any sign of gotya and the others for a while. looks like the RAW propaganda war is trying a few new tricks up its sleeve. if these people are truly muslim then they should be ashamed of themselves: dividing muslims for nationalistic purposes. go home and get a real job.

    • Aseem says:

      To tell you frankly, most indians dont care for Pakistan but some muslims here do feel like knowing whats happening there. Our urdu press does carry stories about Pakistan but a whole lot of people like me who have difficulty reading urdu, dont find as much to read in english media. To my luck internet gave this opportunity to peep into your life. I accedintally stumbled upon this site and liked going through the articles. But i soon realized, your articles are more india centric rather india obsessed and often did not give truth. Thats when i started writing comments and getting involved. I had thought initially that i will make some friends but the kind of language used against me was deplorable and gave an idea of how intolerant and undemocratic pakistanis can be. The chance of making a friend has been lost as i too have been dragged into unpleasantries.

      All the while i used to think we are brothers separated at birth but i was made to feel that we are different by race, skin color, by not living in indus valley and not supporting pakistanis i became a lesser muslim. I can very well empathize with bangladeshis what they must have undergone prior to 1971.

      And talking of dividing muslims for nationalistic purpose… please tell me who divided indian muslims into three different entities? Now the muslims in the subcontinent are known as Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis. Who would you blame? Jinnah? I will come back to my question again. Why Ummah or Rasool Allah (SAW) keeps fighting with each other? Why Muslims are killing muslims in Pakistan? Why Baloch muslims are seeking freedom from Muslim Pakistan? And why then, Pakistanis expect Indian Muslims to support them and be a Namak haram to their own nation?

      • 321 says:

        “To tell you frankly, most indians dont care for Pakistan but some muslims here do feel like knowing whats happening there.”

        this is simply not true. almost every major pakistani news website i’ve been to there are indians. so contrary to what you say, you actually do care.

        also the articles here are usually spot on. of course you need to take your blinders off to see that. i’ve seen the indian point of view. yes i have and frankly i’m not impressed. your evidence is shoddy in most cases for ex the 26/11 terrorist attacks. especially the 26/11 terrorist attacks.

        “All the while i used to think we are brothers separated at birth but i was made to feel that we are different ”

        sorry to see that you feel that way but most pakistanis wouldn’t care if you’re dark. i don’t know about the pakistani elite and who cares what they think? they think the common pakistani is trash given their policies. i myself don’t have anything against your race or origins. just your importance of putting nationalism over religion.

        who divided the muslims? who knows? tons of entities. it’s unfair to blame jinnah as his goal was to make a separate homeland for muslims. hardly what i would call an attempt to divide muslims.
        what i do know is that nationalism divides muslims. ethnic differences divide muslims. and as i keep telling you – and you’re apparently refusing to acknowledge this – if you put more importance into nationalism then there is no doubt that muslims will be divided. putting islam first at the very least minimizes the divide if not eradicates it.

        • Aseem says:

          You feel overwhelmed because of the sheer numbers. if 5% indians take interest in pakistan its more than 1/3rd of your population while 95% indians not bothering at all.

          My interest in your country is only because you are a muslim brother of same ancestry. I read somewhere that after independence you were the fastest growing economy and many nations like south korea were trying to copy your growth model but it sufferred a set back after your Opn Gibraltar and Grandslam that eventually led to Indo-Pak war. Pakistan was doing very good when globalization was happening, you took the lead, your per capita income was way ahead of India’s but what happenned? you got yourself involved with rogues like Talibans and played in the hands of US. when something goes wrong no ones come to rescue other than doing lip service. you have seen it in 1971, the world just watched and sympathised with you.
          I still see Pakistan ignoring the real issues of Awam and hung up with India and kashmir to its detriment. I wonder why dont you learn from your best friend china? They also claim Arunachal Pradesh which is about 85000 sq kms similar to abt 100,000 sq km of area of J&K under India, but their approach is very different. Both never let the issue come in the way of business and other matters of strategic importance. whereas Pakistan and India have deprived its people from maintaining any relations with each other.
          Pakistan says nothing doing until kashmir is resolved. what kind of approach is this? Can Pakistan take Kashmir by force? Answer is Never. But the matter can amicably be resolved by discussion and give and take but for this also an atmosphere should be built over several years so that the egos are kept away from the issue.

          Despite a section of Bangladeshis (loyal to pakistan during 1971) hate india but the successive governments of both countries have worked amicably to resolve the disputes. They could do so as they let the issues become a non ego for their people. So as long as India and Pakistan’s egos are involved, Kashmir will never be resolved and it will take, in my guess, a minimum of 30 years of constant working by both nations to make it a non-ego issue. this 30 years is nothing against 1000 years of war over kashmir.

          Think over it with a cool and calm mind. If Japan can be best friend of US after being nuked and defeated in WW-2 by the latter, no possibility could be ruled out.

        • 321 says:

          it’s not the numbers -_- i’ve been to indian sites to read an article. i have rarely ever seen any pakistani on it. however if go to a major pakistani website i’ll be sure to find at least a handful of indians. the fact remains that you ppl have an obsession over pakistan.

          as as for the resolution of kashmir. it’s up to india to show it’s sincerity. pakistan under musharraf made concessions against pakistani will. india hasn’t. i fail to see why we should continue making concessions on kashmir while you do whatever you please. it is pakistan even now that is calling for dialogue while you indians carry out false-flags and warmonger. just give the kashmiris their right of self-determination. don’t see why you indians are absolutely refusing to let it happen. scared that they most likely don’t want to be a part of “shining india”? also stop supporting terrorists in pakistan. stop spreading false propaganda and warmongering against pakistan. you want peace? it’s that simple.

          take a look within yourself and see who’s the real impediment to the resolution of this conflict. it’s india, the state that absolutely refuses to cooperate.

          • Aseem says:

            You would rarely see an article on pakistan on an indian site, so it does not interest many pakistanis but when indians open any pakistani site, it is full of india. Secondly, as i said earlier that many muslims in india are keen to know about their muslim brothers in pakistan and bangladesh and that too with a soft corner.

            you know, there are people in Texas who want to secede from USA, some scottish and irish want to secede from UK, some balochs want to secede from Pakistan…. similarly some kashmiris want to secede from India and so some people from every state want to secede from India. its nothing but a democratic expression. However, democracy does nt give right to secede or violence.

            You want right to self determination for kashmiris but will you give this right to Balochs?? Right to self determination is meaningless when militants have scared away the minorities. Historically Pakistan never agreed to demilitarise PoK which was a pre condition to plebiscite. So when a Pakistani asks for plebiscite in kashmir, its just unpalatable, unacceptable.

            Which terrorists in Pakistan India is supporting?? I will be happy to know about that.

          • 321 says:

            my interest doesn’t only lie in pakistan. i’ve went to indian sites to read on stuff like 26/11, the recent false-flag beheadings,etc or other articles concerning science and tech if the link is indian. you say that many muslims are keen on learning about other muslim countries. i’m not doubting that. however then what is the reason for so many hindus on pakistani sites as well? and considering the way indians comment on pakistani website, it’s more than just a passing interest. but whatever.

            you ignore the number of people wanting to secede. i don’t know about the texans but majority of kashmiris want to secede.

            why do you keep bringing in balochista into this? most balochis by far don’t want to separate. it’s only greedy, power hungry sardars backed by (just like the ttp) indians and US. so you can remove that from your wishlist.

            removing the army was NOT a pre-condition. go read the plebiscite. it says that the army has to be removed but doesn’t say when.
            but why does the army being there prevent india from providing self-determination? if you were sincere you would have done it, army or no army. pak army could have been removed as soon as voting started. instead india gives lame excuses and unlike pakistan it refuses to cooperate and makes no concessions.

            which terrorists has india been supporting? the TTP AND balochi separatists

  15. 321 says:

    @aseem you keep saying why aren’t the kashmiris moving away from IOK if they are being persecuted. you then use palestinians, bangalis, afghanis and rohingyas examples.

    afghanis had to leave or they would be caught in crossfire. palestinians left b/c the israelis forced them to leave their homes so that they could take it. i don’t remember palestinians leaving during the recent conflicts. do you? bangalis left b/c just like in afghanistan, in a war things get destroyed. rohingyaw left b/c they were being attacked and leaving was their only option.

    so why haven’t kashmiris left? well first of all the insurgency doesn’t have much strength b/c its an indigenous one, not supported by outside elements (if pakistan was giving them all that money and training then they would have been more much more effective. just look at what happened to the soviets). since it doesn’t have much strength the indian army isn’t engaged in a war like that between pak army and your terrorist mukti bahini. in other words no destruction on a mass scale.

    just b/c they aren’t moving away doesn’t mean they aren’t being oppressed. or are you telling me that the palestinians aren’t being oppressed? or that the uyghurs aren’t being oppressed? or that the millions of arabs who had to suffer under dictatorships weren’t oppressed? after all none of THEM moved away. let go of your blind nationalism and face the truth: your terrorist soldiers are raping. they are murdering. there are sudden disappearances of women and children. indian soldiers disrespect our religion. they’ve even installed a puppet government. you speak of tourism. tourists come to still pakistan as well but according to you we’re a failed state. so your argument of tourism doesn’t hold…especially when there’s 700,000 terrorists there to provide the illusion of security and happiness.
    what the indian army is doing is just another form of oppression designed to create fear and helplessness to weaken resistance in the hearts and minds. in fact it’s exactly what israel is doing when its not waging war on the palestinians. just that you’re doing it on a smaller scale.

  16. Aseem says:

    Problem is you see the world through your specks. India is a secular nation and there are innumerable muslims in our army. There is a Maj. General in Indian Army who is a kashmiri muslim. The Vice Chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University is a retd. Lt. General Zaheeruddin Shah. India’s vociferous defence analyst Maroof Raza is an ex-army officer. Indian Army appoints Moulvis for religious duties. India’s IB chief is a muslim. You are either ignorant about muslims’ status in India or you are just making false propaganda.

    Regarding killing and rape… if one person is killed or rape the people and media follows it up till the end. The killing of a youth in 2010 is still hot here. The rapes did happen by security forces but only in the early 90s. Pick up any international human rights report and you will find that militants have raped more kashmiri women.

    You also agree that situation is not as bad for kashmiris that they will leave their motherland and take refuge in another country. The fact that no muslim has left kashmir talks a lot about the propaganda of suppression, oppression by indian forces. Crimes like rape and murder do happen in kashmir as they happen in rest of india, or pakistan or USA or anywhere else.

    Also regarding your propaganda of 700,000 army being lodged in Kashmir, please understand that LoC is guarded by Army and not by paramilitary forces as required under UN. So its the army that guards the LoC in Kashmir. Secondly, India’s northern army command is head quartered in Kashmir. Eversince you dishonoured LoC in 1999, India can not trust Pakistan and has to be vigilent 24×7.

    Its unfortunate that normalcy, peace and prosperity in kashmir valley makes pakistanis unhappy. Regarding tourists, there were 13,00,000 tourists in kashmir last year and this excludes the pilgrims. Can you tell me how many tourists visited whole of pakistan? Its high time Pakistan focussed on economy rather than destabilizing the sub continent.

    • 321 says:

      muslims in the army? i guess that settles it. muslims are treated lovely in india and we can ignore the fact that muslims are one of the most, if not the most, worse off groups in india. hurray for “secular” india!

      no i don’t agree that the situation in kashmir isn’t bad. don’t twist my words. you’re continuing to use the fact that no kashmiris leaving means that they’re not being treated badly. go read my comment again b/c it’s clear you weren’t able to understand simple writing the first time. human rights reports lol

      my propaganda about 700,000 soldiers? what propaganda? you haven’t even refuted anything so yea completely pointless rambling there.

      why would peace an normalcy make me unhappy? that “peace” and “normalcy” you’re talking about comes at the expense of kashmiris. but i see we’re back to the same tourist argument. what a lame strawman argument lol. if you must know there were 1 million + tourists in 2012. not bad for a supposedly “failed state” eh? just imagine the numbers when your terrorist proxies are finally defeated/give up. by your nonsense logic any country with less tourists then militarized kashmir has a crappy economy.

      pakistan is fighting against terrorists supported by your country along with a few others. you’re on bad terms with almost all your neighbours. you’re consistently warmongering against pakistan due to false-flags. take a clue as to who’s doing the destabilizing.

      • Aseem says:

        In India people can not differentiate between TTP, Taliban, Al Qaida etc. they are all Taliban. Frankly speaking, I dont even know what is the demand of TTP? India supporting TTP is indeed a news to me and other indians and I dont believe it. We have sufferred from terrorism and supporting it anywhere in any form can not be indian.

        Army deployment is a secret matter, we really wonder how you imagine the figures of 7 lakh armymen in kashmir… it is just part of propaganda. At least we dont use airforce against our own people.

        Regarding secularism, let me tell you a man’s real character gets revealed when he is in power and majority. would you like to be treated the way you treat your minorities? do minorities in pakistan have equal rights on par with majority? If majority of Indians start treating their minority the way pakistan does then how can we believe that you support muslims of india? Muslim population has grown more than hindus in India while in Pakistan minorities are getting extinct.

        Pakistan instead of being Dar-ul-Islam is more like Dar-ul-harb and India instead of being Dar-ul-Amn is more of Dar-ul-Islam. you check the death and atrocities on muslims in both countries, India fairs better despite muslims here being in aqliyat. Gujarat Riots are indeed a blot on India’s secularism but its not the end of it. I am all in favour of Muslim Ummah and brotherhood but i wont let any fake jihad against my own nation. A jihad can never be defeated if its truely a jihad.

        And if 20 crores muslims can live in India with all rights and equality then I can not support a call for separation of Kashmir on the basis of Islam. Yes, the moment they are deprived by the state of their fundamental rights that any muslim or any human deserves, I will be the first one to support and fight for their cause.

        • 321 says:

          it’s news to you b/c you don’t do any research. you just follow the indian propaganda.

          ummm…army numbers are not secret LOL i don’t care if the army uses the airforce against foreign backed terrorists. they decided their own fate.

          first of all i can see how india treats its minorities just by looking at the mass poverty that the muslims of india are in. the way christians and even dalit hindus are treated. and please don’t use population growth as evidence lol. gujarat violence isn’t the only one and you know it.

          muslims don’t need secularism to treat minorities better. in the west there was a ton of persecution and that’s why instead of actually following what their bible says, they opted for secularism. in muslim lands however there was little to no persecution. why? muslim lands weren’t secular. the difference is that muslims need to be better educated on their religion. also it’s only after the western backed wahabbis in saudi arabia came to power that you see this trend. ironic isn’t it?

          the number of muslims in india has nothing to do with freedom of kashmiris. they are being oppressed and so you should let them separate. you yourself have just said that if someone’s deprived of rights then you will support them. well then put your money where your mouth is…SUPPORT THEM!

          • Aseem says:

            The day kashmiris get any lesser right than another indian, i will come to their support openly.
            Why muslims are backward in india because –
            1. the poorest of the poor muslims were left behind after partition as most richer ones landed up being mohajirs in Pakistan.
            2. lack of modern education as many muslims prefer to go to madarsas rather than govt. or public schools. however, the trend is changing now.
            Wherever in world the muslims are in majority, they cease to be secular. Not that they adopt sharia laws but they just want to dominate and persecute the minorities. Very few countries are like Turkey. Hate to say this but even Israel is secular.
            Reg number of armed forces in kashmir, its only guess work by supporters of militants. Also, after Kargil intrusion pakistan can not be relied upon.

          • 321 says:

            i don’t see you going to their support…they have less rights. just take a look at the (draconian) laws passed (you should know which ones).

            you should include discrimination in job search as well as for why they’re so poor.

            like turkey? take a look at how turkey treats its kurds. and israel? really?!? israel!? you have now lost all credibility! i will repeat myself. secularism isn’t needed to treat minorities better. just better education on islamic principles. oh and i suppose funds and supports to terrorists by india, US, israel and other western nations needs to be blocked as well.

            if you don’t agree to 700000, fine then approx 300000 soldiers with 500000 if you include paramilitary.

            after incessant lies, false propaganda and warmongering by you indians and support of terrorists, you indians have lost your credibility. you don’t want peace.

  17. Ali Ahmed says:

    Pakistan is to be declare as terrosit country

  18. Aseem says:

    well, how would i know why so many hindus are taking interest in you. may be they are venting out when they see that terrorists roam free in your territory and when asked, you have the habit of denying.
    Democracy does not give you a right to secede. Some kashmiris want to join Pakistan, some want to be independent and some want to be part of India. This is not the case with only kashmir. its there in other part of india and pakistan and also the world. We dont want another dismemberment of Pakistan but deal with it that kashmir issue is similar to balochistan just the difference is that despite their offer to join Indian dominion, we refused and did not create problem when it joined Pakistan.

    UN resolution on plebiscite is first of all not binding on any party so Pakistan did not withdraw its army and hence india did not conduct plebiscite. by the way after militants have done ethnic cleansing and people are under fear of terrorists’ dictats, there is no point discussing on plebiscite as it has no meaning now. If india wanted, it could do referendum under its army, like Gen Zia, and get a 100% mandate that all kashmiri wants to be with india, but we dont believe in such shams. Once pak trained infiltrators are stopped, the kashmir becomes peaceful without any demand for secession. For your info Kashmir is an integral part of india and our democracy does not have a provision for secession. the only dispute is ove PoK and infiltration of terrorists. The world knows this and they support india’s stand.

    As regards to Indian support of TTP, please have some better imagination. India will do anything to crush any terrorist with a surname of taliban. Regarding Baloch insurgents, i can say as an independent thinker that some elements in RAW might be willing to help them but it will be very difficult for such elements to get support from their bosses. Moreover, RAW does not have much fund nor it generates its own funds like ISI by printing fake currency notes and smuggling drugs. Baloch will be happy to get support, training and funds from India but are you so sure about taliban to seek help from so called Hindu India. isnt it a paradox that one who seeks to establish sharia law and eliminate non-muslims, will seek help and support from “Hindu” India or “christian” west?

    • 321 says:

      or maybe indians are just obsessed with pakistan deny it all you want. it’s true.

      also why do i keep having to repeat myself on balochistan? do you have some sort of reading comprehension problem? most balochis don’t want to separate. the separatists are supported by india and others.

      the kashmiris want their right of self-determination. defeating militants isn’t going to stop that. so stop being tyrants and give them their right. the world supports you? who exactly? the west? LOL

      *sigh* do you even know what the taliban is? the afghan taliban and the pakistani taliban are 2 completely different groups. the latter likes to pretend it’s allied with the former. it’s not.
      as for the balochi insurgents, they’re already getting their arms from inside of afghanistan. they have even admitted that india is supplying these arms.
      “RAW does not have much funds” *rolls eyes*

      the TTP claims that they’re supported by those who are sympathetic to them. anyone can pretend to support their cause. the US already supports al-qaeda while claiming that it wants to destroy them. US agents have posed as al-qaeda to lure muslims in america to carry out false-flag attacks to blame on al-qaeda. quite the paradox isn’t it? and yet its undebatable. the ttp does suicide bombing and kills innocent people. it has destroyed mosques as well. that’s against islam. another paradox no?
      qari zainuddin and haji turkistan both claim this as well.

  19. Aseem says:

    If you are referring to AFSPA you should know what are its clauses.
    a. army can declare an area as a disturbed area.
    b. army can make arrests without warrant but inform the local police station at the earliest.
    c. army can search any place in a disturbed area.
    d. army can use force on miscreants after giving warning.

    You very well know that army acts without restraints in the world. Does Pakistan have any law that allows its airforce to bombard its own people? At least we make laws and our armed forces know that they have to act as per law. Any misuse of any special law brings strict punishment to the forces. And in the areas where no such special laws are there, there are incidents of police atrocity regardless of religious affiliation.

    There is no discrimination against anyone for job. Kashmiris are alloted seats in medical/engg in other part of the country and PSUs are forced to recruit from J&K campuses. Moreover, recruitments and appointments in govt and private sector happens on national basis and job seeker has to move away from his native place. rarely people get job in their own city except Delhi, Mumbai and other major metros. There are no poor in Kashmir and for that matter anywhere in India. Poverty is a relative term. Every indian has access to food, education, medicine.

    I knew your antenna will be erect to hear about Israel. But i have no sympathy for the arab world how they treated palestinians and how they treat non-arab muslims. many indian muslims in Saudi know they can never be equal to their saudi counterparts. The whole of Arab and muslim world have no guts to take action against Israel. why? Is arab world weaker than tiny Israel with just 7 million population? or they are boot lickers of west?

    It does not matter how much military is in Kashmir. The fact is that its on indian soil and not across the border. after chinese attack on kashmir in 1962 and continuous infiltration by pakistan army and terrorists, do you think india will keep its forces in Goa? its but natural.

    Despite all our neighbours having some complex with india that india acts like a big daddy in the region, india has managed to live peacefully with all of them except Pakistan. China, which attacked India in 1962 and took away Aksai Chin part of J&K, india absorbed Sikkim in 1967 after killing over 300 chinese soldiers and despite china’s claim of Arunachal as their territory, the relation between china and india is much more peaceful, mature and both nations have thriving business relations. When other neighbours can have good relations with india despite differences, we find it difficult to move forward with pakistan because like an obstinate kid, pakistan just refuses to talk anything except kashmir. that means Pakistan does not want peace. pakistan is ready to eat grass but will have nukes. pakistan will wage a 1000 year war with india… with such mindset, how can one talk of peace with pakistan and i am not even mentioning your role in terror.

    • 321 says:

      the AFPSA is universally recognized as giving justification to human rights abuses. how ironic of you to support it. but hey lets not forget these

      na.gov.pk/en/content.php?id=90

      there are no poor? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! that’s rich! then why is india home to a third of the world’s poor? “relative term” LOL stop trying to cover this up.

      “that its on indian soil”

      no it’s not. you just claim it is. until kashmiris through their own selves decide to join india then too bad. it’s not yours.

      the same can be said about you indians. pakistan doesn’t have a problem with anyone else. pakistan has a problem with india and india has a problem with pakistan. however it is pakistan which is always calling for discussion while india refuses to cooperate. you indians are allergic to peace. every action has been to balkanize pakistan. pakistan is only trying to give the kashmiris what they want and what YOU agreed to. supporting terrorists, warmongering, carrying out false-flag terror attacks against it’s own people. you indians are crying b/c even with a weaker military and billions of dollars supporting terrorists plus spreading lies and false propaganda for years, you still haven’t been able to realize your dream of a fully dismembered pakistan. but by all means keep on believing in your so-called “shining india.”

  20. Aseem says:

    Do you give right of self determination to Balochis? They reject accesion to Pakistan that they were never consulted. They resent being called Pakistanis and they resent imposition of Urdu on them. (By the way I never understood how come Pakistan opted for an indian language from gangetic belt to be its national language.)

    In india there is a saying “munh me ram, bagal me chhuri”. On one hand you call for dialogue and on the other hand you train, arm and infiltrate terrorists in India. India responded to your gestures and our PM went to Lahore by bus and you responded by invading in Kargil. you promised that the terrorist masood azhar will be arrested if he tries to enter Pakistan but he gives public speeches. Most terrorists are living in pakistan but you deny. you also denied about Osama bin laden.Whats the point talking to you? Take the records of terrorists killing in pakistan and kashmir in last 5 years and stop bothering about kashmir and pay attention to your own areas.

    India shining was a political slogan by BJP 10 years ago and they are out of power since. But in last 15 years, India has really changed for better. There are still poor but no one goes hungry. India has given rights to food and education to her people. Its indeed something to be proud of.

    • 321 says:

      why do you keep harping on balochistan? i don’t see how i can possibly make this any simpler for you. MOST BALOCHIS DON’T WANT TO SEPARATE! also if you actually bothered to look at the partition plan, it says that if the religion of the ruler and the majority of his subjects is different then it is the wishes of the PEOPLE that has to be carried out. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN KASHMIR. i don’t know what kind of twisted history you learn over in india but the balochis WILLINGLY joined pakistan. it wasn’t a forced annexation like the ones carried out by you indians a few times.

      funny how you forget your training of balochi terrorists and the mukti bahini terrorists. for all your claims of the moral high ground it’s YOU who used terroists against pakistan first and continues to use terrorists against pakistan.

      ” Most terrorists are living in pakistan but you deny.”

      what I thought it was afghanistan? of course since pakistan is now the target, it’s pakistan that hold’s the terrorists. let’s look at who finances these terrorists shall we?
      1) you indians
      2) americans
      3) israel
      4) afghanistan
      5) possibly other western allies of the US

      “you also denied about Osama bin laden.”]

      HAHAHAHAHA how brainwashed are you!?!? you actually believe that crap? what credible proof have the americans given? you’re so gullible that it’s actually hilarious!

      “Take the records of terrorists killing in pakistan and kashmir in last 5 years and stop bothering about kashmir and pay attention to your own areas.”

      no i won’t just pay attention to my “own areas.” terrorists in pakistan are being funded by terrorist india and your terrorist collaborators. india is also oppressing the my kashmiri brothers and sisters. oh and also you should stop being a hypocrite and get off this site and any other pakistani site you might be on. india has a ton of problems so like you said: pay attention to your own areas (instead of stalking pakistani websites spreading lies and propaganda and making excuses for acts of brutality).

      “There are still poor but no one goes hungry.”

      LMAO. did you know there’s something called google? i can fact check whatever you say. so next time don’t tell an outright lie. it’ll help your propaganda effort too that way.

  21. Ali ahmed says:

    SAVE KASHMIR FROM PAKISTANI TERRORISTS BANGLADESH IS ALREADY SAVED.321 PAKISTAN IS SALVE OF AMERICA .AMERICAN KILLING PAKISTANI PEOPLES IN PAKISTAN ONLY.PAKISTAN SOLD PART OF KASHMIR TO CHINA ALSO.

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