A Plea for Common Sense
It is difficult for politicians to admit they were wrong. But when it comes to Afghanistan, the consequences of not doing so could be high. It is time for the West to cut its losses and withdraw.
The most difficult thing to do in politics is to change course — admitting that everything that was right yesterday is wrong today. It is a particularly challenging maneuver when the decision is between war and peace.
Winston Churchill, stubborn as he was, never could admit that he had made a mistake in 1915 when, as first lord of the Admiralty, his strategic error helped lead to the bitter defeat of the Entente troops at the hands of the Ottoman Empire at Gallipoli. Similarly, it took 30 years for former US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara to acknowledge that the Vietnam War had been a mistake.
The German government, NATO and the West shouldn’t wait that long. Together they should realize — and admit — that the war in Afghanistan is not going to end in success. We have failed. The war has been lost. The country that we leave behind will not be pacified. It is possible that we could have been successful had we understood earlier how the country works. But now, we are no longer a part of the solution — increasingly, we have become part of the problem. It is best just to leave now, before additional blood is spilled. The secret war logs given by WikiLeaks to SPIEGEL confirm as much.
Led by the US, NATO and other Western allies have been trying to pacify Afghanistan for almost 10 years — with little success. War aims have changed frequently. None of them, however, has been achieved. The intervals between the large-scale Afghanistan conferences, from Berlin to Paris, London to Kabul, have become ever shorter, but the list of problems has only grown. The country remains a potential breeding ground for terrorism as it was prior to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the US. And little that the West has imported to Afghanistan since then has put down such deep roots that it would survive a pullout for long. Girls’ schools, wells and newly paved roads are pleasant side effects of the NATO mission in Afghanistan. As a justification, however, they are not enough.
Clearer from a Distance
“Nothing is good in Afghanistan,” said Margot Kässmann, then-head of the Protestant Church of Germany, a few months ago. The angry response from German political leaders was quick and biting — and showed that she had touched a nerve. Her comments were criticized, with some justification, for having shown a lack of detailed knowledge of NATO’s mission in Afghanistan. But sometimes things are clearer from a distance.
Afghanistan is a nightmare, a graveyard of empires. The British came first, followed by the Soviets; now NATO and the UN are losing their innocence on the battlefields of Afghanistan. In total, the US, its allies and private security firms have almost 200,000 soldiers stationed in the country, roughly equal to the number the Soviets stationed there in the 1980s. It wasn’t enough then, and it won’t be enough now. And increasing that number would be militarily difficult and politically impossible. The West has bitten off more than it can chew.
When sending troops abroad, governments take out a kind of loan from the populace — a loan of trust. This is particularly true in Germany. Should payments not be made on that loan, the electorate eventually calls it in completely. And without the support of the populace, overseas missions become increasingly difficult. This point has been reached already in Berlin and in a number of NATO capitals.
Losing with Dignity
It is difficult to ignore the political parallels to the Vietnam War. The Western alliance has reached the point where calls for patience and for continued support have become increasingly shrill, even desperate. Politicians’ words are sounding increasingly hollow. In a recent government statement, Chancellor Angela Merkel was so uninspired that she resorted to borrowing former Defense Minister Peter Struck’s famous formulation that Germany’s security is being “defended in the Hindu Kush.”
Before the Afghanistan mission’s aim becomes only that of saving face, we should withdraw. Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger demanded in 1971 that his country should lose the Asian war with dignity. To achieve that aim, the US stayed in Vietnam for two more years — years which resulted in the deaths of additional hundreds of thousands of people in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
One can hear similar expressions of desperation these days. Only recently, German Development Minister Dirk Niebel said on television that Germany has to stay in Afghanistan. Berlin owes it to those who have lost their lives, he said.
One wonders how much longer we will have to listen to such justifications.
http://islamabadtimesonline.com/itoexclusive-video-about-progress-in-afghanistan/
To the Muslims of Pakistan
I am writing this to get your attentions on very fundamental issue Pakistanis are facing in the really confusing times and environments that we are living in; the issue is Democracy.
I’m really in great painful mental turmoil over so called democracy propagandas nowadays going on in almost every Islamic country and especially in Pakistan and how Pakistanis are following and perusing this democracy thing day and night like satan kay calays; busy persuading themselves and others how good it is to have democracy, knowingly democracy is not an Islamic system.
Still those Pakistanis the so called Muslims in Medias, political circles and in civil societies doing their best singing democracy songs in everyday’s life for themselves and for others, almost dying for it and can’t count their blessings on themselves and upon us if we just whole heartedly apply democracy on us like we wear our clothes and wouldn’t like to be seen without and in the same manor we should allow this democracy thing in our lives, just so we will be called better people and in return make loads of monies.
My question is this; why Pakistanis are dying to establish democracy and political parties and votes and election commissions while west standing with major political parties to support them pushing agendas and what not in country like Pakistan, knowing Pakistan is Islamic country? If anything they should have Islamic system not the western system the creation of some drunken goras the sole creators of this so called democracy thing?
Democracy with political parties and with vote systems is a western system. It is just like; when you want to get marry never have NIKAH just arrange some civil ceremony to marry and your marriage commitment will be considered legal. Additionally, it shows democracy is someone else’s system, created by someone else’s aims and agendas for their interests and for their life styles in which they want to live and carryon living.
To me democracy is like; i.e., my neighbour’s household and how they lead their lives in system they set for their lives accordingly, and I start copying them and imply their household system and bring it into my house to be run like theirs, would it be right for me to do this? NO; it won’t and infect it will be bad if not worst, it could be degrading if not disaster.
You see I have a big problem with all those so called Muslims the promoters of democracy, who are busy like hell day and night telling us democracy is good and is for your life and it is the only way in which you can ever live happily and so on, NAUZUBILLIAH’.
I feel we Muslims have totally abandoned Islam in real from our lives. We might be praying five times a day and fast in Ramadan and perform Hujj when possible and try giving Zakat when we feel like. But if doing all these things makes us Muslim then I don’t want to be Muslim really,and I don’t want to be called as Muslims, because to me Islam is the name of total submission to Allah and to his command, where there is no room for excuses and no room for ifs’ and buts’; either you are Muslim with full fledge followings of Allah or you are not, and if not then how one can call him/ herself Muslim then?
Democracy system is outside of Islamic system. Islam have given Muslims the clear cut directions to how to form governing set ups according to Allah’s orders, yet what we have is democracy Jamhoriat Ka Kanjar Khana, even in the west where it was created; it is still a very big Kanjar Khana, with degrading and deranged people leading.
Nation’s billions go in waste setting up elections and parties and then after elections putting elected ones’ in the offices and in the whole process you sell your mothers, sisters, imman and deen and children and izat and everything that could be saved for the good of the humanity, yet as Muslims we don’t blink an eye on this disastures satanic practice called demo-cracy and whole heartedly go make political parties and stand in cues to cast votes for democracy knowing democracy is a creation of the west by the Christians and Jews and Hindus.
So why do we do this to ourselves and in doing so; we actually denounce Allah and his beloved Prophet Mohammad PBUH and Islam. Did any of you so called Muslims (actually the jackals’ in disguise of Muslims) thought about it, that what on earth we are doing to ourselves and to our faith and deen by promoting western systems the democracies and their other systems in our lives and in doing so we actually right off Islam from our lives; only so we will live happily ever after with some western pork eating drunken gora’s creation the Neelm Ki Paari the democracy?
MUSLIMANO IS THIS YOUR GOAL; IS IT? THINK ABOUT IT AND ANSWER ME, PLEASE DON’T CHOOSE TO IGNORE MY PLEA!
A. Reuters said; A Pakistani passenger plane near Islamabad on Wednesday, killing all 152 people on board, officials said, in the worst aviation accident in Pakistan.
Also
B. Reuters said; Two Americans were among the victims, a U.S. embassy spokesman told Reuters.
1. PYAR ALI
2. IMTIAZ ALI KURD
3. SYEED SHAAN-E-HUSSAIN NAQVI
4. PREM CHAND
5. HASSAN JAVED KHAN
6. SYED ARSALAN AHMED
7. MOHD. TUFAIL
8. ABDUL REHMAN
9. MOHD. FAISAL RASHEED
10. MOHD. OVAIS
11. HUSSAIN ALAM
12. GHULAM ABBAS
13. NAVEED ILYAS
14. MOHD. ALI MUGHAL
15. MOHD AFTAB
16. SHIREEN LODHI
17. MOHD. NAWAB HASSAN
18. ASIM ARAIN
19. ALI SHERAZI
20. MOHD. BASHIR
21. ZAHID HABIBI
22. DR.MIRKO CVJFTICANIN
23. ASIA BEGUM
24. MOHD. UMAIR KHAN
25. HAJI REHMAT GUL
26. MOHD. SAQIB RAFIQ SHAIKH
27. MISHA DAWOOD
28. ALI ASGHAR RAJAB ALI
29. RASHIDA TYEB KHAN
30. MURTAZA TYED KHAN
31. MALIK MOHD. YOUSUF
32. NABEEL LUTFI
33. MANZOOR NASIR
34. SALEEM AHMED
35. ROSIE AHMED
36. SALAUDDIN SYED
37. HAMID JAVED
38. MOHD. YOUSUF
39. ATA RAJA
40. SALMAN KHAN BIJRANI
41. MEHRAN KHAN BIJRANI
42. ANWAR BIBI
43. GULZAR BIBI
44. TARIQ SUBHAN
45. ABDUL GHAFFAR
46. IRFAN IRFAN
47. MOHD. SULTAN
48. MOHD. YASEEN
49. GAYABA KHAN
50. MANZOOR AHMED
51. MASOOD SALAM
52. SYED AZAM
53. OJAM KHAN
54. JANNAT GUL
55. ZAINTUN BIBI
56. WAHEED UR REHMAN
57. MOHD. FEROZE
58. DR. SURESH
59. MOHD. ASAD
60. AMIR SIDDIQUI
61. MONA DHONKI
62. MEHLEE DHONKI
63. AMIR DHONKI
64. AFSHAN DHONKI
65. MASOOD KAYANI
66. ZAFAR SALEEM
67. ABDUL GHANI
68. ADNAN QAYOOM
69. ABBAS HAIDER
70. OSAMA GHAFOOR
71. MOHD. ZAMEEN
72. ANDALEEB JUNAID
73. ABDUL RAHEEM
74. MOHD. ZAID RAUF
75. ANWAR BEGUM
76. NUSRAT BEGUM
77. ALI SHAH
78. KAMRAN SHAH
79. ABDUL QAYUM
80. MAQSOOD AHMED
81. ABDUL GHAFFAR
82. MOHD. IQBAL
83. KHAN ZAMAN
84. A M NASIR
85. SYEDA RABAB ZEHRA NAQVI
86. OVAIS BIN LAIQ
87. BILAL JAMAEE
88. SYED ASHIQ HUSSAIN SHAH
89. SAMATAR BASHIR
90. AMER KHATTAQ
91. HASSAN NASEEM
92. ATIF RASHEED
93. KANEZE AKHTHAR
94. SHAMSUL HAQ
95. KHADIM HUSSAIN REHMAT KHAN
96. MIRZA TAHIR BAIG
97. MOHD IRFAN
98. MALIK GHULAM HUSSAIN
99. JAVERIA FARAZ
100. MOHD AJMAL KHAN
101. SIKANDER HAYAT AWAN
102. MUBASHIR SHAHID
103. TARIQ SHAHID
104. MR. KAMRAN
105. MR. SALEEM
106. JAVAID IQBAL
107. PERVEZ AKHTHAR
108. RAHEEM KHAN RAJPUT
109. IKHLAAS KHAN
110. ASWAH GUL
111. ANSAR ABBAS
112. ATHAR IFTIKHAR
113. HAJI GUL MEHBOOB
114. FAROOQ KHAN
115. SYED JAWAD ALI
116. AYESHA AMIR
117. ALIZA AMIR
118. ABU BAQR IZHAR
119. SAPNA MUNAWAR
120. FAROOQ NADEEM
121. MOHD. ASIF
122. HASSAN ADEEL
123. ABID MEHMOOD
124. MALIK MUHAMMAD AJMAL
125. OWAIS KHAN
126. ROMAISA KHAN
127. MUHAMMAD SALEEM
128. MUJAHID REHMAN
129. AESAR ALI
130. TASLEEM KAUSAR
131. MUHAMMAD IBRAHIM
132. GHULAM RASOOL
133. MRS SHAHEEN
134. MRS SABIRA
135. MRS GULSHAD
136. MR RAWAHA
137. JEHANGIR KHAN
138. ALI AKBER
139. MUHAMMAD RAFIQUE
140. SYED HAIDER ZULFIQAR SHAH
141. MUHAMMAD SALEEM AKHTAR
142. RIZWAN GHANI KHAN
143. AMBER RIZWAN
144. MUHAMMAD ZAWAR KHAN
145. ARBAAZ KHAN
146. MUSKAN RIZWAN
147. FARID AHMED ALVI
148. SHAMAS US REHMAN ALVI
149. KHIZER PERVAIZ
150. KIRAN ALVI
151. MUHAMMAD KHALID
152. ASIF SHEHZAD
153. AYESHA ASIF
154. SYED AINULLAH AGHA
155. AFAZAL MASOOD
156. SYED ATTAULLAH HASHMI
157. WAHEED SHAIKH
158. NAVAID CHAUDHRY
the two american citizens could well have been pakistani-americans with muslim names most likely.
29 July 2010 Last updated at 20:20
David Cameron defends ‘frank’ comments about Pakistan
David Cameron: “It is not acceptable for there to be within Pakistan the existence of terrorist groups”
Prime Minister David Cameron has defended his comments about Pakistan’s record on tackling terrorism as he completed his trip to India.
At a press conference with Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh, he said no-one was in “any doubt” there were terrorist groups operating in Pakistan.
The Pakistan government had made real progress but must do more to “crack down on and eliminate” them, he said.
He said he was “looking forward” to talks with Pakistan’s president.
President Asif Ali Zardari’s visit to the UK next week is likely to be dominated by the fallout from Mr Cameron’s trip to India where he warned Pakistan about “promoting the export of terror” and being allowed to “look both ways” on the issue.
‘Eliminating threat’
His remarks were criticised by Pakistani officials and led to him being accused of “damaging the prospects of regional peace”.
In his last official engagement of the trip – a press conference with Indian Prime Minister Singh – Mr Cameron again stood by his remarks.
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“We should be fair to the Pakistan government that they have taken steps in recent years to combat some of the terrorism in their own midst,” he said.
“But we need to go on encouraging this action to take place so we can reduce and eliminate the threat of terrorism, whether here in India, Afghanistan or on the streets on London.”
Asked whether he would be similarly candid when he met the Pakistan president in Britain next week, Mr Cameron said he would.
“I think the right way is to discuss these things frankly, openly and clearly. I look forward to having discussions next week, including with the Pakistan president.”
Earlier, he told the BBC that speaking frankly about the issue was “what people expect of their government”.
His remarks followed the leaking of US documents on the Wikileaks website in which Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence agency was accused of secretly helping the Afghan insurgency.
‘Enormous role’
Pakistan’s High Commissioner to the UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, criticised Mr Cameron for choosing to believe leaks that the official said lacked both credibility and corroboration.
Writing in the Guardian, he said: “One would have wished that the prime minister would have considered Pakistan’s enormous role in the war on terror and the sacrifices it has rendered since 9/11.
Later, Mr Hasan told the BBC that he hoped Mr Cameron’s comments were a “slip of the tongue” and “not a meant slight by him”.
Pakistani foreign ministry spokesman Abdul Basit told a news briefing that the government was “saddened” by his comments.
Analysis
Continue reading the main story
image of Laura Kuenssberg Laura Kuenssberg BBC chief political correspondent, New Delhi
Before he was prime minister, he styled himself as Cameron Direct.
But his boldness when offering verdicts on foreign affairs while abroad has caused some surprise.
He has declined to follow the traditional niceties and nuance of diplomatic language.
Mr Cameron’s remarks this week were well received in Turkey and India where they were made.
But that is not necessarily the case with their neighbours.
Pakistan’s high commissioner to the UK has suggested Mr Cameron made a mistake due to his inexperience.
And shadow foreign secretary David Miliband urged Mr Cameron to take care with his tone.
This was meant to be a trip about trade, bringing home jobs for the UK.
And a senior member of the delegation travelling with him told the BBC his strong remarks had overshadowed its original purpose.
David Cameron believes his candour could improve Britain’s relations round the world.
But this new stance has left others wondering if complete honesty is the best foreign policy.
“These remarks are contrary to the facts on the ground,” he said.
Referring to the Wikileaks disclosures, he added: “This malicious campaign that has been going on now for years against Pakistan and against our security agencies – particularly ISI – cannot belittle our achievements and cannot blight our record against militants and violent extremists.”
The BBC’s Sanjoy Majumder said Mr Cameron had “certainly made an impression with his comments on Pakistan, which were being seen as unusually blunt”.
And Shadow Foreign Secretary David Miliband said the prime minister needed to think “through carefully what he is going to say” on such occasions.
While Britain must speak with “conviction” on important issues, he said Mr Cameron had only told “half the story” and “failed to recognise” Pakistan had lost thousands of its own citizens, including former leader Benazir Bhutto, to terrorist attacks.
“There is a fine line between a straight talker and a loud mouth,” he told the BBC.
Mr Cameron’s remarks are likely to be welcomed by officials in Delhi, which has long accused its neighbour of backing attacks on Indian targets.
The two nuclear-armed rivals have fought three wars, with peace negotiations stalling following the Mumbai attacks of 2008, which India blamed on Pakistani-based militants.
At the end of a trip designed to boost trade links, Mr Cameron spoke of an “enhanced and enduring” relationship between the two countries.
The UK has signed a multi-million pound defence deal with India and will be able to export British civil nuclear technology to India for the first time.
Indian premier Mr Singh said the two countries were “natural partners” and announced that they had reached partnership agreements in areas spanning energy, education, culture and the economy.
To all PKKH regulars;
Pakistan’s respect has called for you to come forward and defend its respect that was put to tarnish in the third world’s biggest failed estate British-India by the British shopkeeper’s Jew-bag – David Cameron.
His grotesque behaviour was then supported by Pakistan’s compromised political party PPP corrupt penny huggers and its mafia foreign office personals.
Today BBC has posted this editorial to further degrade Pakistan and its nationals, clearly supporting this shopkeeper David Cameron the Jew-bag along with some loser Indians.
Actions:
As of now; must boycott Indians and anything to do with India.
As of now; Mr%‘s next week’s visit to UK must be blocked/cancelled.
As of now; British ambassador must be thrown out of Pakistan right away with official warning notice given to Britain the nation of shopkeeper’s Jew-bag-David Cameron’s official apology.
All diplomatic relations must be cut off from Pakistan side as from now till further.
Now is a time to do some work for the name of Pakistan.
Those 2 Americans were Pakistani Americans so they had the same names like pakistanis.
Tere is no such thing as Paksitani american. Only caucasian are american. all the rest are good old niggers and sand nigger. Ask so called paksitani americans
@NADIA,
There is only one answer, the people of our country (pakistan) are corrupt. that is why they choose corrupt leaders.
@ Pakistani brother/sister
Those two American Yankees were member of black-water, male and female. Their identities has been blocked and removed. Medias from all over the places have been trying to get the names of those two Americans but no luck.
Wonder what PPP’s corrupt compromised GANG is hiding and what actually had happened, it is yet still open to all sorts of possibilities.
But as Pakistanis and as usual we will avoid conspiracy theories, it’s not our game; we only play with the hard core realities of today’s life around us, therefore we don’t run for conspiracy theories.