India’s Hostility Toward Pakistan
South Asia expert Stephen Cohen of Washington’s Brookings Institution recently told his audience: “Not a few Indian generals and strategists have told me that if only America would strip Pakistan of its nuclear weapons then the Indian army could destroy the Pakistan army and the whole thing would be over.”
These remarks sharply contrast with the volumes being written in the West, particularly in the United States, about Pakistan’s “obsession” with India. Pakistan is being incessantly lectured by the Western leaders and media to stop worrying about the security threat from India and focus exclusively on its western frontiers and the Taliban. These positions are often echoed by some of the liberal media editorials and commentators in Pakistan as well, in spite of substantial evidence to the contrary.
The American admonitions to Pakistan about India’s “benign” intentions are now turning into absolute demands. Preposterous conditions by various interest groups and Indian lobbyists in Washington are being added to the draft version of the “Aid Pakistan bill” that is expected to come up for debate in US Congress soon. According to Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper, the first major condition for aid requires Pakistan to undertake not to support any person or group involved in activities meant to hurt India and to allow US investigators access to individuals suspected of engaging in nuclear proliferation if it wants to qualify for a threefold increase in US economic assistance. This is probably just one of many conditions that Pakistanis will see as an insult to and assault on the nation’s sovereignty.
With Pakistan’s vociferous protests and angry responses to the US campaign against its military and intelligence service’s genuine concerns about the Indian threat, there are a few US respected analysts, including Christine Fair, Laura Rozen and Stephen Cohen, who are beginning to look for and discover evidence of India’s hostile actions and intentions vis-a-vis Pakistan.
Here’s what Christine Fair of Rand Corporation thinks about Indian involvement in destabilizing Pakistan via its growing presence and influence in Afghanistan:
I think it would be a mistake to completely disregard Pakistan’s regional perceptions due to doubts about Indian competence in executing covert operations. That misses the point entirely. And I think it is unfair to dismiss the notion that Pakistan’s apprehensions about Afghanistan stem in part from its security competition with India. Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, Iran, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity! Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar (through which it supported the Northern Alliance) and is likely doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Qandahar along the border. Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Baluchistan. Kabul has encouraged India to engage in provocative activities such as using the Border Roads Organization to build sensitive parts of the Ring Road and use the Indo-Tibetan police force for security. It is also building schools on a sensitive part of the border in Kunar–across from Bajaur. Kabul’s motivations for encouraging these activities are as obvious as India’s interest in engaging in them. Even if by some act of miraculous diplomacy the territorial issues were to be resolved, Pakistan would remain an insecure state. Given the realities of the subcontinent (e.g., India’s rise and its more effective foreign relations with all of Pakistan’s near and far neighbors), these fears are bound to grow, not lessen. This suggests that without some means of compelling Pakistan to abandon its reliance upon militancy, it will become ever more interested in using it — and the militants will likely continue to proliferate beyond Pakistan’s control.
Here’s another, similar view of India’s involvement with the Taliban to foment trouble in Pakistan as seen by Laura Rozen in her article in Foreign Policy Magazine:
The former (American) intelligence official strongly supported the regional approach to Afghanistan suggested by US special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke. “Afghanistan is a classic power vacuum,” the former official said. “Neighbors see it as point of instability to guarantee their own stability or an opportunity to score points.”
While the U.S. media has frequently reported on Pakistani ties to jihadi elements launching attacks in Afghanistan, it has less often mentioned that India supports insurgent forces attacking Pakistan, the former intelligence official said. “The Indians are up to their necks in supporting the Taliban against the Pakistani government in Afghanistan and Pakistan,” the former (US) intelligence official who served in both countries said. “The same anti-Pakistani forces in Afghanistan also shooting at American soldiers are getting support from India. India should close its diplomatic establishments in Afghanistan and get the Christ out of there.”
“None of this is ever one-sided,” he added. “That is why it was so devastating and we were so let down” when India got taken out of Holbrooke’s official brief.
Here is an excerpt from respected South Asia expert Stephen Cohen’s recent remarks in Canada:
India is groping now for a national identity that would allow it to approach Pakistan with confidence, but there is no consensus on how to mesh India’s identity with that of Pakistan’s. Indians do not know whether they want to play cricket and trade with Pakistan, or whether they want to destroy it. There is still no consensus on talking with Pakistan: sometimes the government and its spokesman claim that they do not want to deal with the generals, but when the generals are out of the limelight, they complain that the civilians are too weak to conclude a deal. The default option seems to be that Pakistan is now someone else’s problem–in this case the United States’. Not a few Indian generals and strategists have told me that if only America would strip Pakistan of its nuclear weapons then the Indian army could destroy the Pakistan army and the whole thing would be over. This of course is both silly and dangerous—and could lead to a catastrophic misjudgment when the fifth India-Pakistan crisis does come. We were close to one last year, I have no doubt that the people who tried to trigger a new India-Pakistan war will try again.
Below is the full text of Stephen Cohen’s April 9 speech before the International Development Research Center in Ottawa, Canada:
President David Malone, and Ladies and Gentlemen, I am honored to be invited to speak in this series on India. My approach will certainly be different from that of M.S. Swaminathan and Amartya Sen—both of whose work I came to know in 1993 when I spent a wonderful year in the Ford Foundation’s New Delhi office. My hope is that it offers an equally valid way of looking at India’s “emergence” or “rise,” and that what I have to say is relevant to our shared interest in seeing a more prosperous, equitable, and democratic India.
India’s Revolutions
India is a revolutionary power in many ways. India is not only undergoing several domestic revolutions—that of its economy, its caste system, and its federal structure, but also in how it sees its place in the world. India’s revolutions are different than those of China, and comparisons must be made very carefully. I can save some of you a lot of trouble by letting you know that much of the literature on “Chindia,” exemplified by two books I saw in Chennai last December—The Dragon and the Elephant and The Elephant and the Dragon, is with a few exceptions, mostly useless.
The end of the Cold War forced India to reconsider how it configured its relations with major states, notably America. It is still a free-rider to the extent that, without being a member of any American-organized alliance, it benefits from the stability provided by these alliances. At best, Indians describe their relationship with the US as a “natural alliance,” a content-less term. India has an interest in a stable international order, but it has so far been only a bit player when it comes to global order issues.
With the end of bipolarism the long-held dream of becoming one of the world’s four or five centers of power and authority seemed to move closer, but other than run of the mill peacekeeping operations under UN auspices—just like Bangladesh—it shows few signs of playing a larger role. Perhaps maintaining its own integrity is enough for the time being, but the chronic conflict with Pakistan is another reason why India remains confined to its region.
India’s dispute with Pakistan is one of the reasons why the reforms sought by Amartya Sen, M.S. Swaminathan, and such eminent businessmen as Nandan Nilekani will be slow in coming. Ironically, this is not because of Pakistan’s strengths, but because of its weaknesses. Let me develop this idea further.
Globalization and its Discontented Victims
The cold war masked a process that was just as corrosive to many states as the US-Soviet rivalry. Pakistan got the worst of both worlds: its cold war ties retarded its political development, they allowed for the perpetuation of a military and strategic rivalry with the much larger India, and gave it false comfort in the belief that its cold war allies would help them in time of crisis.
However, often hidden by the rhetoric of the cold war, another process was moving forward. This was variously termed “non-military security,” or ‘human security,” labels that were invented to compete with the cold war paradigm of “hard” or “real” security, that is, the security of states themselves.
There was a widespread belief, promulgated by the foundations and some governments, that states were themselves the threat — that too strong states repressed their citizens, and that human rights groups and NGOs could, and should, fill in where the state was repressive. There was also a belief that too much attention had been given to the security of states, not enough to their citizens. The state was the problem, non-state forces, backed by international watchdogs, were the answer.
I think this was a misdiagnosis—states that were too weak were also a problem, and over the last ten years we have seen the further weakening of many new states, and some old ones, such as Nepal and Afghanistan, states that have been unable to adapt to the accelerating process of what we call globalization, defined as the increasingly rapid movement of ideas, people, and goods around the world at an unprecedented rate. The three technologies at the heart of this latest spell of globalization were the transistor, the wide-bodied jet, and the container ship. They enabled revolutionary applications such as the cell phone, satellite communications, and (a mixed blessing, indeed), global finance networks.
Of course, the world has always been globalizing, people, ideas and goods have been in motion since prehistoric times. Four hundred years ago globalization entered its modern era with the invention of navigational aids and new forms of military organization that allowed the exploration and conquest of the world by a few Western states and later Japan. Two hundred years ago globalization hit the middle classes, and allowed ice from Walden Pond to cool drinks in the clubs of Madras, Bombay, and Calcutta, and as Henry David Thoreau wrote, would mix with the holy waters of the Ganges. A hundred years ago steam technology and international mail service enabled my grandfathers to hopscotch around the world until they settled in the United States—one of them, incidentally, made a stop in Canada.
India had the resources and the infrastructure to take advantage of the most recent surge of globalization. It has become a global player in the software industry, a major center for advanced research (often funded by others, not necessarily in response to critical Indian needs, such as agriculture), a cultural superpower, and an efficient processor of services. As Thomas Friedman and others have noted, India (and China) have lifted the largest number of people in history out of poverty—yet India still has half of the world’s poor.
Misreading the World
Indian leaders misread the end of the Cold War. They correctly saw that they had to re-balance Indian strategic policy—after all the chief international supporter, the Soviet Union, had disappeared. Leading Indian strategists argued early on that some accommodation with the United States was necessary. Now, just about every party, except a few on the Left, agree with this shift.
However, there was a slow and inadequate response to the unleashing of new forces set free by the decline of communist and left ideology. We forget that the Cold War was not just a struggle between major states—the so-called superpowers—but a struggle between ideas on how the world would be organized. Young people are almost always idealistic, and a generation ago usually rallied to a leftist, pro-Soviet, or even pro-China cause.
The end of the cold war, plus China’s conversion to market economics and a cynical single party state pretty much removed the appeal of left ideas as far as the young, the backbone of any revolutionary movement that opposed injustice, even if Maoism without Mao lingers on in South Asia.
By the early 1990’s it was easy to predict that ethnic identity movements and religion would replace communism as the Polar Star of the young, the disenfranchised, and the angry.[3] As a state, India is familiar with ethnicity and identity: it is an important element in India’s relations with all of its neighbors. A short list would include Tibetans, Kashmiris, Bengalis, Sikhs, Sindhis, Nepali speakers, Mohajirs, and Tamils. Indeed, every one of India’s neighbors has a major overlap with it in terms of ethnic identity movements.
New Delhi early on learned how to manage ethnic movements, using force when necessary, then accommodation. In the words of an Indian police official, “we hit them over the head with a hammer, then we teach them to play the piano.” It works, in the same way that the Romans kept peace in their far-flung multi-ethnic empire. It also works as an instrument of foreign policy, and a number of South Asian states, including India, have used ethnic separatist movements to keep a rival off-balance. India (backed by the US) did this for a while with the Tibetans of China, it certainly did this in Sri Lanka, supporting Tamils, with tragic and unanticipated consequences, and its most significant use of ethno/linguistic discontent was its support of East Bengali separatist against Pakistan. There is ample evidence that India uses its presence in Afghanistan to not only balance radical Islamists there, but to undercut Pakistani efforts.
Of course, Pakistan had long fished in troubled Indian waters. Even today it officially draws a distinction between Kashmir and India proper. China actively supported Naga separatists and other irredentists for many years.
Two, three, four, or five wrongs not only do not make a right, but they create a morally muddied situation. If everyone is to blame, no one is to blame. The alphabet agencies—ISI, RAW, and so forth—are often the chosen instrument of state policy when there is a conventional (and now a nuclear) balance of power, and the diplomatic route seems barren.
Frankly, this would not matter very much in the larger scheme of things, especially with an India that is acquiring real economic power. In the case of India’s other major Asian rival, China, they have a long border dispute, they have supported separatist and irredentist groups in each other’s territory for years, they are economic rivals, and they are nuclear weapons states—yet they have moved to a level of accommodation and understanding that seems impossible in the case of India and Pakistan. China is expected to soon become India’s largest trade partner, whereas Indian trade with Pakistan (except via the smuggling route), is negligible.
The India-Pakistan Conundrum
There are many reasons why India and Pakistan are seemingly incompatible, despite their shared history and geographical space. Let me present an explanation, and then note how other trends impinge upon an already-dangerous situation.
Structurally, the India-Pakistan relationship is toxic. It is a classic case of what I call a “paired minority conflict.” In these situations both sides see themselves as vulnerable, threatened, encircled, and at risk. They have a “minority” or “small power” complex, which also means that conventional morality does not apply to them. Sri Lanka and the Middle East are the other two outstanding cases of a “paired minority conflict.” All three are self-contained, internally powered conflict machines.
It is easy to see why Pakistanis have a classic small power complex: they are indeed smaller than India, increasingly less capable, their friends are fickle, and when from time to time Indian politicians and officials concede that Pakistan is a legitimate country, Pakistanis feel even more insecure.
But why India? There is a powerful and emerging Indian identity, one that transcends regional differences, a continental-sized economy, and the plaudits of the world, now including the United States. India also has a world-class popular culture and its political parties are constantly redefining and refining a new Indian identity. But the fact remains that until very recently the self-identity of India’s elite was that they were citizens of a loser state? Those who were able to do so left it for more promised lands, to America’s benefit and that of Canada. This is changing rapidly, just as there is new thinking in Pakistan about India, but the core antagonisms still drive the overall relationship, hampering efforts to develop trade, people-to-people, and economic and institutional ties of a level that exists, say, between Taiwan and China.
In their quest for an identity, some Indians tried to replicate Pakistan’s failure by manufacturing a “Hindu” Indian identity—the so-called Hindutva movement. But there is no all-Indian Hindu identity—India is riven by caste and linguistic differences, and Aishwarya Rai and Sachin Tendulkar are more relevant rallying points for more Indians than any Hindu caste or sect, let alone the Sanskritized Hindi that is officially promulgated.
India is groping now for a national identity that would allow it to approach Pakistan with confidence, but there is no consensus on how to mesh India’s identity with that of Pakistan’s. Indians do not know whether they want to play cricket and trade with Pakistan, or whether they want to destroy it. There is still no consensus on talking with Pakistan: sometimes the government and its spokesman claim that they do not want to deal with the generals, but when the generals are out of the limelight, they complain that the civilians are too weak to conclude a deal. The default option seems to be that Pakistan is now someone else’s problem–in this case the United States’. Not a few Indian generals and strategists have told me that if only America would strip Pakistan of its nuclear weapons then the Indian army could destroy the Pakistan army and the whole thing would be over. This of course is both silly and dangerous—and could lead to a catastrophic misjudgment when the fifth India-Pakistan crisis does come. We were close to one last year, I have no doubt that the people who tried to trigger a new India-Pakistan war will try again.
The structural contradictions in the relationship explain much of the problem. Put in terms of raw politics, India’s political parties do not make this a central issue in governance. In Pakistan there is not much support in the Establishment (or ruling oligarchy, to use the proper Aristotelian label) for an end to South Asia’s cold (and sometimes hot) war.
As the years pass, India and Pakistan have traded places in being insecure and vulnerable: like two sides of a teeter-totter, when either side is down it fears that any concessions will lead down a slippery slope, when it is up, it expects the weaker side to bow. India is presently “up,” but there is no serious consideration of a deal that would bring to fruition the process begun by Atal Behari Vajpayee in the 1990s. Interestingly, it has been the BJP that seems to be more willing to redefine Pakistan in such a way that India could live at peace with it. Both Jaswant Singh and L.K. Advani have talked of “Jinnah’s Pakistan.”
Let me list a few other factors that reinforce this paired-minority complex:
* There are groups on both sides that try to disrupt the process when it seems to be reaching a positive conclusion. Some of the bureaucracies and covert agencies on each side need the conflict for their own self interest—the two armies, in particular, would have very little to do (except, perhaps to fight separatists and terrorist groups) if the international border were normalized. On the right, when Jaswant and Advani appeared soft on Pakistan they were roundly berated by the Hindutva hard-liners.
* The introduction of nuclear weapons in the arsenals of India and Pakistan have not promoted peace—although they may have made all-out war virtually impossible.
* The presence of bureaucratic pathologies should be noted, in particular the Pakistan army’s narrow vision, the Indian Ministry of External Affairs’ absence of vision.
* The so-called track II dialogues, are more often than not a way of avoiding serious strategic dialogue between Indians and Pakistanis. They often involve those people who were responsible for past bad decisions, yet the same people who ten years ago were eager to do nothing now preach the importance of dialogue and further meetings—conference building measure. As one Indian journalist properly observed during one of these marathon talk-fests, both governments should consider extending the age of retirement by five or ten years since so many of yesterday’s hawks had morphed into today’s doves.
* There is also an absence of imaginative strategic thinking in India—most officials and politicians seem to follow the advice of P.V. Narasimha Rao, who said that inaction is always preferable, that time will fix most problems.
Prime Minister Rao may have been right in some matters, but I don’t think this is the case with India’s chief strategic and foreign policy problem, one that penetrates to the core of Indian politics—the crumbling state of Pakistan. I won’t go into details, but all of the long term indicators for Pakistan are very negative: economic growth, population, demographic trends, sectarianism, governmental coherence, rising discontent among non-Punjabis, and an increase in sectarian extremism within the Punjab itself.
There is one positive trend: for the first time all of the major, relevant powers of the world are concerned about Pakistan. China, the EU and NATO states, America, and others understand that their Pakistan problem is not simply one of containing terrorism, but the integrity of the Pakistani state.
I think that Indians sense this, but the moment for action was five or six years ago. Here, Washington and New Delhi failed each other as they were falling over each other in an attempt to complete an agreement on civil nuclear energy. I supported the deal, but it certainly distracted the United States from what was happening before its eyes. “De-hyphenation” was an Indian objective, and it was successful in the short term—but it contributed to American disinterest in internal developments in Pakistan just as these were becoming pathological.
Exactly six years ago I published a book on Pakistan, and the last sentence concluded: “Before writing Pakistan off as the hopelessly failed state that its critics believe it to be, Washington may have one last opportunity to ensure that this troubled state will not become America’s biggest foreign policy problem in the last half of this decade.” Just before that the 2000 CIA “Global Trends” report, looking ahead to 2015, suggested that “Pakistan will not recover easily from decades of political and economic mismanagement. . . . Nascent democratic reforms will produce little change . . . . and domestic decline would benefit Islamic political activists, who may significantly increase their role in national politics and alter the makeup and cohesion of the military. . . . In a climate of continuing domestic turmoil, the central government’s control probably will be reduced to the Punjabi heartland and the economic hub of Karachi.” Most recently, the Australian/American strategist David Kilcullen, predicted that Pakistan might collapse in six months.
Is it too late? It might be, but politics is an empirical science, not a theoretical one, and there has to be one last comprehensive effort to answer the question of Pakistan’s viability.
As for India, it is both part of the problem and part of the solution, but I know that if it does not act in a positive and creative fashion its hopes of becoming a comprehensively great power cannot be achieved. There may be some gratification in seeing your major enemy and rival go up in flames, but not if your house catches fire.
What to Do?
Let me conclude with a small “to do” list, addressed mostly to India but also to outsiders who want to be of help:
* Kashmir is both the cause and effect of this paired-minority complex, it can’t be “solved” because there is no solution as long as present mind-sets prevail. Read the superb new study by Ambassador Howard Schaeffer of America’s many failed attempts coming out shortly from the Brookings press, and instead, look for ways that turn Kashmir into a non-zero sum problem. My suggestion would be to address, more broadly, the looming environmental and water issue, of which Kashmir is an important component. This affects India, China, Nepal, and Bangladesh, this is properly dealt with on a regional basis. Kashmir, as such, is not “ripe” for resolution, but parts of the problem are.
* Regional trade is another area where India and Pakistan need an excuse to do only what is in their self-interest. In this case there is the problem of the big fish-little fish: Pakistan is big fish as far as Afghanistan is concerned, but a little fish when it comes to India. India of course is the whale as far as Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. India stands to gain a lot by giving up a little, a mind set that is common in the business community but not among the bureaucrats.
* Nuclear proliferation provides us with anotherff opportunity, and if missed, all parties will suffer. India tirelessly avoids the issue by pious accusations in the direction of Pakistan on how not to be a responsible nuclear weapons state. All that India needs to do is to rediscover the Rajiv Gandhi action plan, which not only called for global disarmament—a politically safe thing to with the Bush administration gone—but Rajiv also addressed, if briefly, the prospect of movement at the regional level. This now means China, India and Pakistan, and it should not take more than ten minutes to figure out how many nuclear weapons would preserve deterrence stability for India. Given that India was rewarded with an incredibly generous agreement by the Bush administration, India should do more than simply reiterate its own excellent record. Such a region-wide agreement might include better verification and assurances regarding national protection of weapons and fissile material; it is not that Indian practices are bad (although there is little evidence that they are good), it is that India’s vulnerability to a nuclear weapon from Pakistan is self-evident. It is astonishing that the same Indian officials and “formers” who decry Pakistan as a rogue state and the epicenter of terrorism, seem perfectly happy with Pakistan’s control over a growing nuclear arsenal.
* Finally, India needs to engage in introspection about he full range of military power that it wields. India is certainly Asia’s third great state, but the book I am now completing will argue that its strategic weight and its military power have been misjudged. Just because a state has done well in one or two areas does not necessarily mean that it will do well in all of them. There are no more than a handful of political and administrative officials who really understand the use of force and the instruments of military power. India cannot remove key threats by force, yet it maintains a huge army and an equally large paramilitary force that are strategically dysfunctional. It sometimes behaves like a timid state for good reason—yet it wants its neighbors to be in awe of its power. No big state will ever be beloved by its smaller neighbors, but India has failed to capitalize, especially in the case of Pakistan, on its real assets—these are its great cultural and economic power, not its army or its nuclear weapons.
To summarize, India is the dominant power in South Asia, but it is the putative leader of the least-integrated region of the world; its neighbors all struggle, and at least one of them, Pakistan, defines itself in anti-Indian terms. While India must concentrate upon its domestic reforms and restructuring, this process must be accompanied by fresh thinking about India’s regional relations, and the role that outside powers can play in helping these to become more normal.
The agenda I have outlined is already too long, and the problems that India faces in its relationship with Pakistan are very great. I remain optimistic that India will change — it has done so at astonishing speed in many spheres—and somehow convert an enemy into a partner. India may have to give a little, but it has a lot to gain. The rest of us can stand by, offer suggestions where asked. However, we must also be prepared for strategic failure—another serious crisis with Pakistan, the further fragmentation of that state, or the expansion of the radical Islamist agenda to India itself. I am no Cassandra, but prudence suggests that we not just hope for the best, hope is not a policy.
In my view, Pakistan faces two existential threats, not one. Clearly, the Al Qaeda and Taliban threat is in the news right now much more than the Indian threat.
Any nation that has faced Indian intelligence’s covert war followed by an outright invasion to divide it can not be told to ignore that threat. The kind of rhetoric that emanated from India post-Mumbai can not be ignored either, particularly when both nations have a nuclear standoff, the kind of stand off the Americans had with the Soviets. In fact, the situation is much worse than US-Soviet standoff because there is no geographic separation.
My assessment is that “the Taliban” is not one organized monolith with a clear set of unified goals and single chain of command. There are many disparate groups operating under the label of “the Taliban”. My guess is that some of these groups have probably also been infiltrated by foreign intelligence agencies like RAW and Khad that want to wage covert war in Pakistan to destabilize it.
http://www.riazhaq.com/2009/04/indias-hostility-toward-pakistan.html
1. The last paragraph sums it up really well.
”There are many disparate groups operating under the label of “the Taliban”. My guess is that some of these groups have probably also been infiltrated by foreign intelligence agencies like RAW and Khad that want to wage covert war in Pakistan to destabilize it.”
2. Cohen fails to mention a fact that oozes out of the history pages is that Pakistanis have been far more imaginative in trying to resolve Kahsmir issue. Pakistanis have bent over-backwards to resolve the issues. Cohen fails to mention that India kept on lossing the opportunites.
The reason is very simple. It is trying to play the Israeli-Paleatinain game over Kashmir. The extra ‘HATE-PAKISTAN’ cell they seem to have in their body clogs theit thinking.
The portential of the region is being held back by India.
Here is something all Pakistanis keep telling Indians and now being to to them by Cohen:
If you excel at one or two things it does not mean you excel at all of them.
Hey, its better than excelling at nothing.. you know
Hey, it’s not us who goes around saying “Shining India” and selling mud Ghandis to the whole world.
Appreciate your comments for “Shining India”. But again its better than “Blowing Pakistan”!!
Blowing Pakistan??/ You have the guts to say this, if we are blowing then please check your country to, there are enough Bombs blowing in your country to, censoring them doesnt hide the FACT!!!!
Shining INDIA- just like the SLum dog Millionaire explored!
@ Excel..
Check out the Maoist Rebels activities in india, there are more other groups like maoist ..destabilizing india but media dont expose this. media will expose all this when all of the groups will take over india. Often researchers get news from media and whats going in india, you can;t watch on tv so ….one day you will see all the things at once
There is something in for the Pakistani press to:
Despite evidence to the contrary even soem of the Pakistan press, which labels itself liberal, blames Pakistan for having India-centric vision.
Wake up you fools.
Just a few months ago, PKKH had this to say “The Pakistan Army had thoroughly evaluated Steven Cohen’s Cold War strategy and found it lacking in substance and reality.”
And now, all of a sudden, Cohen is “Respected American South Asia expert Stephen Cohen”.
Sounds a bit like you like to listen to him whenever it suits you and you like to toss him in the bin when you don’t.
But this statement – I agree with. “As for India, it is both part of the problem and part of the solution”…. and writing from India, I don’t think there is any build-up for war here as you might assume… there really isn’t.
Hey PKKH – How about doing a piece on what ordinary Indians really think?
@ Amused
Same goes for u.Ordinary muslims like me think that Muslims all over the world r brothers and we dont believe in any nation or boundary.If ppl like u mess we will support our brothers covertly or overtly.We r one nation n hopefully inshallah within next 25 yrs we will see this reality of muslims as one nation.GO TO HELL AMUSED.
Asalam o Alikum
for that comment I must say that “I love you Salman Bhai”
Tariq Meer from Pakistan
one.meer@gmail.com
hey, aren’t you being a little too much paradoxical here?
i’ll make it easy for you.
first off, i hope you understand the different between reporting and opinion. think on it.
second off, if you notice, you are dramatizing the thing by forcefully emphasizing and stereotyping that Pakistan is showing disrespect because it quoted a person. did you get an idea of that by the line you quoted up there or you’re just making it up because you like it that way?
lastly and most importantly, you’ve missed the point altogether because you while reading (?) were more concentrating on finding a fault than reading and because you quoted something totally out of context from an another article. you said Pakistan listens at its own will and whereas the statement [[[“The Pakistan Army had thoroughly evaluated Steven Cohen’s Cold War strategy and found it lacking in substance and reality"]]] implies clearly that Pakistan had NOT ONLY listened to the guy but also thoroughly evaluated his views, just that their findings did not really sync well with his findings, but that you will choose to sensationalize it as disrespect and what not, right, expectable indeed !
i believe you are an ordinary Indian and you, along with other Indians will have to largely purge from yourselves this negative and demented disorientation towards Pakistan by stereotyping a country as you like, before you think you can talk about “what Indians really think”. in fact, what is more important is that its not what Indian masses really think about peace and making peace, but that its what the Indian establishment and its policy makers think. And if we go by that, we have a very ugly picture. so it doesn’t really matter what you think amused. no one would listen to you despite you talking about peace whether u mean it or not – in reality. Pakistan will not make its policies by listening to indian masses and their calls for peace but instead to people who call the shots i.e. when india boasted its new coldstart doctrine, what mr.kapoor meant when he said he is ready for war with pakistan and china and that he can invade pakistan within 96 hours under nuclear threshold and all that. and these are the things really to talk about and fix before peace can progress. empty talks will never matter. and perhaps, you should stop yourself from forcefully trying to find faults and concentrate more on the matter by reading the article again. its not a conspiracy theorist saying all that. its RAND and FP and american officials. the point basically here is to emphasize upon the official point of view of americans and indians.
why do you always deliberately miss the point and highlight the petty stuff?
@LAYLA
If I had a negative opinion of Pakistan, I wouldn’t be on this forum with the intention to talk would I ?
There is nothing stopping me from insulting your country or your religion, but, if you notice, that is something I haven’t done.
I’m not deliberately missing any point. I think you guys are… the Indian establishment is not geared for war. Our economy is growing and conflicts hurt that growth – which we need to get a third of our population out of poverty.
Whether or not your Government makes it’s policies by listening to the Indian masses is completely irrelevant. The idea is for people to understand people and remove a lot of misconceptions – which, let me assure you, are plenty.
@STRIVER – you point out the more extremist elements in our midst. They are a national shame, and they are not much different to the sort of people that you have in your country – whether it be the Gojra riots or the other radicals. However, what is important is this – radicals do not represent a nation. Should I make a blanket statement that suggests Pakistanis hate Christians because of Gojra – no – because that wouldn’t be true – would it?
PTV IS broadcast in India by the cable channels and there was probably a ban for a month or two sometime in 2008 I think. Pakistani dramas have always been available to watch on video tape and cable tv. Pakistani artists have always been welcomed in India and a lot of them perform for Bollywood films. I could name heaps, but you know who I refer to.
The hindutva elements are universally reviled in India. The BJP got voted out of power. Shiv Sena is barely hanging on to power in Mumbai and will be voted out soon. That’s internal politics though. Sometimes, people vote for leaders who are best kept in prison – but democracy isn’t foolproof. It has it’s pros and cons and we’ve managed to keep it going well for more than 60 years.
Anyways – that’s what I had to say. Happy to discuss further.
i like your repartee P
hope you know EXACTLY what i mean by this
take care man.. AA
AMUSE, I disagree on the following:
1. That the Hindutva element is universally reviled in Inda. If it was, BJP would not be a strong contender in elections. RSS which is older than Pakistan and India (Hindustan= pre1947) would have been disbanded generations ago. The fact that they are now stronger and bigger (membership increasing rapidly) and have reportedly preapred brain-washed relgiously sealot suicide squads similar to the taliban I think is a cause for concern not just for the neighbours but for the Indian society. You will have noticed how Pakistan has suffered from their lot.
That they are just about hanging on to power is irrelevant. They were voted in, they still have a strong based to still be able to hang to power even if by the teeth.
By contrast, Pakistani anger would melt down like ice cube on a burning candle once the Kashmir issue is settled. You would find no animosity on Pakistan’s part. This is a fact most Indians fail to understand.
When Pakistanis watch Indian films and TV channels, they are getting first hand experience of how venmous some of the channels are. Visit some of the website dealing with the region’s issues or some of the Europena papers that sometimes report on Pakistan and all you is Indians plastering the site with thier venom. So Pakistani veiws on Indian sentiments towards Pakistan are quite realistic based on evidence.
There was not that level of hatred before 9/11. After 9/11 Indian foreign office decided to follow the US-European strategy when dealing with Pakistan and its own Muslims. They went to the extent of changing the way they made their movies, just to show…hey… we are just like you Europeans. When reality is quite different. I girl in India still can’t walk down an Indian street waering a mini skirt.
2. that it is irrelevant Whether or not your Government makes it’s policies by listening to the Indian masses. The Indian government after 9/11 has acquired the skills to propogate is message, lies, hafl-lies and all, to the masses of India. It is using it effectively, brain-washing the public. We can see it may be you can’t sitting in India.
By contrast, Pakistanis have never had an effective government. When they do get it it doesn’t last that long, army or civilian. The advatage if you like of this is that governments do not get to promote their lies to the the public. So their make up their minds quite independly of the government’s message machines.
I agree on the following:
1. radicals do not represent a nation. But we quite justifiably ask why is this not applied in the case of Pakistan and Muslims. The indians are getting their ideas from neo-cons and applying it to Pakistan. Pre-9/11 India was not so hateful towards Pakistan.
2. ….(Indian)..economy is growing and conflicts hurt that growth. The 50s to 70s Pakistan was well ahead of India in terms of econnomic growth.80s saw a samll down turn but when the USSR invaded Afghanistan is when economic vowes began. Still during Musharaf rule economy did very well with recorde growth rate of 8%. The present is not worth discussing. Conflicts are holding back Pakistan.
That India has gained access to internatinal markets because of the special attention being paid to it by US and therefore Europe is worth recalling. I don’t mean that spitefully. Its just the wat it came out.
I will end it here, …….
@Striver – In democracy, there are pros and cons. While the BJP is no longer a serious contender for power in the centre, it certainly is a very powerful political force. They have their good points and they have their bad points. The peace process with Pakistan began under their regime. The BJP and the RSS do not have ’suicide bombers’. You are perhaps referring to ‘Abhinav Bharat’ which now finds itself on the run with heaps of it’s members in prison.
Our system may not be perfect, but on the whole, it does seem to work. The RSS were tried in a court of law and found not guilty – pretty much like how your own Supreme Court has found Hafeez Saeed not guilty.
I read in Pakistani newspapers that the Kashmir issue had almost been resolved under Musharraf’s regime. If that is true, it simply means that the whole process will re-start in a year or so when the Mumbai carnage doesn’t hurt the nation’s psyche as much as it does now. The govt cannot be seen to do peace talks when the nation wants terrorists to hang. That is unfortunately how a democracy works.
Sure – brainwashing works well and it works well on both sides of the border. That is exactly why I am here, trying to talk to you folk to figure out what really happens. Trust me, your Govt is not much better than ours when it comes to lies and half-truths.
Now, I disagree that all Indians are spreading hatred all over the web. Some are, and some aren’t. Not very different to your compatriots on this forum. The basic idea is simple. If you propagate hatred, that is what you get back. If you propagate a basic respect of humanity, that is what you get back. It’s really as simple as that.
EXTRA ORDINARY lailamajnu,
Why gettin this much angry and upset urself??? ’se u hurt huh????
Well,well,….i like ur patriotism and discoveries like hindu talking, muslim talking blah blah…frm where u got education??? and wht kind?(dnt increase ur BP again ha)
kya performance hai yaar…definitely u wil get a job of script writer in movies…I understood ur hate for hindus…’se u learned like tht..smbdy injected it in u.i knw u will never change..u knw 1 joke..me and my frnd shahbaz khan (he is from peshavar) who recently joined me here, together checks ur website and laila’s sparkling dialogues, and we r becme great fans or urs……but 1 request please use ur abilities to enrich people with love,and peace..dnt do the same mistake again and again………………I have plenty plenty pak friends and they are very much patriotic also, but wht they learned is different from u..insulting other religions, countries is no real patriotism dear….u knw very well abt tht.We knw wht is ur propaganda, but it wont work madam…as shahbaz say ‘ this is why pakistan never change’ ’se al leaders are misleading people!!!!!
i knw u will either reject this comment or will come out with sm sparkling dialogues again!!!!!!!
take care
@ respect
you’ve heard of all kinds of pollution. but have you heard of word pollution? i have, the world has, after listening to you. you are so typical and you sound like another cheap soul with a lot of assumptions. now, do you actually have a serious opinion to make here or did you just miss your mind-pill? you people will talk and talk and talk and discuss and discuss and discuss more of peace and progress 24/7, but when it comes to proving, you can’t make a mere comment on a view because you never think that way, never want to. listen seriously, i am already so disappointed and tired and bored from this kind of rubbish talk you people like to do. Please get a life and prove for once you were not just made and left to rot and pollute this nice world. next time, come with a lot of brainstorming and a least degree of logic.
@ amused
you talk impractical dude. anyway, the world is still waiting to hear your views on the article. got some? make it to the point. thank you.
@Layla – yes, I have a point.
How do you define India? This article talks about India’s hatred for Pakistan, and I can tell you that a majority of the population prefers peace. Does that mean that this headline is incorrect?
There are hawks in the Government that prefer conflict and at the same time there are doves who want peace. In politics, the situation dictates who sounds loudest.
Is India involved in unrests in Balochistan – I dont know, but I won’t be one bit surprised if our boys are involved. Let’s look at reality. The LeT, JeM and a couple of other interesting parties get a free run in Pakistan. These people have caused quite a bit of heartache in India. Do you really think when our intelligence boys got the chance for payback, that they would step back? Probably not.
Does that make it good – NO it doesn’t. But that’s reality and geo-politics. Do the people of India support it – well, most either don’t know about it or are more worried about how to afford dal at Rs60/kilo. Does that make Indians guilty, or full of hatred…. you answer that yourself.
I think there is a bit of factual information in the article, but the conclusions drawn are well…. let’s just call a big stretch of imagination and a lot of poetic licence. It’s about as true as calling Kasab – Amar Singh. I’m sure you get the point.
Reading between the lines your spiteful self is still quite evident no matter how mcuh you try to cloak it with friendly fire.
amused, perhaps it would be better if you can differentiate between hostility and hatred. hostility is when your “boys” train an insurgent force, arms it, brainwashes it, implants it in another country, causes destabilization, turns locals against the country and when the country tries to reign in the destabilization, you wage a cheap war on the country and then you break it in the name of humanity and when all is done you say it is our revenge to the muslim rule of 1000 years and years later your “boys” accept that yes we did all this. that is hostility. hostile behavior. and hostile behavior is also when the Indian republic and media zeroes everything built up in the CBM pre 26/11 and accuses pakistan without a proof within 10 minutes of an incident, with the media giving rulings and asking the nation to go to war and it makes very very full of hate videos against pakistan but all when the courts still haven’t proven anything. this is hostility.
this is not indian or pakistani people talking about anything. these are very officials who have worked in south asia with indian generals. and they are only telling you, the indian folk, that this is what your generals are planning. i really don’t care what indian folk thinks. indian folk will not make war policies in bharat. in fact the millions of lower castes do not dare speak in front of brahmins and the brahmin raj. you can literally beat up a dalit in bharat and he wouldnt dare open his mouth. and i know this because ive worked and lived with indian people around the world for years and a brahmin would not like to talk, live with or be friendly with a lower caste. i have had known shoodars and i have known pandits and its a shame how the pandits treat shoodars. i have known hindus of lower castes fighting to live with muslims and pakistanis than with hindu brahmins and i feel pity on them and i feel sorry for this cancer of brahmin raj eating up this country. you cannot treat your own kind with equality and love, and you want the world to believe in a fake aman ke asha? muslims are rated even below lowest hindu castes in bharat. why dont you tell me how were the castes formed first? who came out of head? who from abdomen and who is from legs. first put your society in peace, fix it and then reach out to others, otherwise keep the joke to yourself.
ofcourse india is involved in balochistan and you are proud of it and not surprised. but then, grow the courage to acknowledge it why you are there for? to strengthen pakistan with the monies and insurgent support or weaken it? now you know whats hatred.
LeT and all is only evil according to you. there you see on the headline there is no proof of LET in anything. they were the most praised home grown ngo to support pakistan in 2005 earthquake. if you think let is involved, keep the issue to yourself because pakistani courts do not find any accusations on them to be true. they are baseless cheap blames.
and i will solve this mystery of peace for you and others today.
the thing is, talking about peace and faking peace with pakistan is in the need of bharat. if you read up there, the indian generals say if america strips off pakistan from their nuclear weapons, india will invade pakistan and finish the game. this shows the mindset of you people. and with this mindset, do you want to surprise me by saying that india wants peace? ofcourse india wants to play it safe and the best cover it peace. india sees itself as a superpower, it dreams of going to moon and becoming the greatest country. first off, i believe with a borrowed ideology and system thats not possible but thats a long discussion leave that for now. the thing is, india wants to keep it conventional with pakistan. it knows that if it goes to war with pakistan with pakistan having nuclear weapons it will probably be destroyed to stone ages and thats what it doesnt wana do. it want to make sure that the stage of using nuclear weapons does not come. why ? you can figure it out. because it wants to and it knows it can take over pakistan with its huge forces and it may well too but that is the reason you talk of peace. the aman ke aska is a cornerstone of indian coldstart doctrine. pakistan afterall has not unveiled this new offensive doctrine, india has. why blame pakistan then? is it pakistan thats denying going to tables or india? was it pakistan that accused bharat without proofs or bharat? was it bharat who sent its jets to bomb pakistan or pakistan? was it bharat whose media was inciting its nation to brace for war and wage war on pakistan or was it pakistan? is it bharat that is stopping pakistans waters by making illegal dams according to international bodies such as engineers forum or is it pakistan? is it bharat that broke pakistan or is it pakistan? is it bharats army chiefs talking of going to war with pakistan or is it pakistan? is it pakistan buying 200 billion $ worth of weapons for wars or is it pakistan?
the thing is, you sound to me so impractically. at least after the angry indian and hindu behaviour of 26/11, you should not talk without taking steps. calling pakistani artists to bharat will not solve the core issues. u want peace, start it with your home. put up a campaign in your country and ask you government to abolish the inequal caste system in bharat, ask it to allow international intervention in your courts decisions, ask it to bring down its massive offense budget plans and ask it to stop stopping pakistans waters or allow international bodies in it. start from this, but from your home than hitting others with peace dose. im not going to lower my guards because an offensive bharat said it wanted peace.
and as i see it…bharat has so many problems with all of its neighbors. if bharat can be fixed, everything will be fixed.
“and as i see it…bharat has so many problems with all of its neighbors. if bharat can be fixed, everything will be fixed.”
Well, I guess you think that we need you to rule us for another 1000 years to fix everything…Maybe not, if we look at how the Muslim countries have governed themselves for the last 100 years or so…
India is a secular nation of 1.2 billion people with a burgeoning economy despite all the problems you mention, whether you like it or not…Ultra-nationalist Pakistanis like you have to learn to accept this fact and live with this knowledge…
IMHO it would be much better for you and for the world as a whole, if you could help your nation grow its own identity separate from India’s…Think of the future and not dwell in the past…
It requires gutts to fix Bharat, understand ? Pakistan could not keep its own eastern wing,why
of attacking India ? First let Pakistan deal with US and Al-quaida and Taliban.Musharaff tried it in Kargil with devastating effects by Bofors guns .Let it maintain its own integrity first.control Karachi riots anf target killings first and then secure your atomic weapons from US first.
Never did I once say I was “proud” of what was being done in Balochistan. Never did I say that I KNEW that it was being done. All I did was offer a rational explanation.
But more importantly, you constantly raise the evil of the caste system – so here is an answer. It is an unfortunate part of an Indian society which is thousands of years old. Evils that have persisted for thousands of years do not disappear in 10. Much has been done and much is being done and lot has improved. However, a lot still needs to be improved – which will happen in due course of time.
Regarding 26/11 – it was only the media that blamed Pakistan. The GoI never blamed the Pakistani Govt (and still doesn’t)
Finally – get over the whole “muslim rule of 1000 years”. No one in India uses or even refers to that term. India was invaded throughout history and some invaders settled down enriching us, and some didn’t. That’s history. No here is out to ‘correct’ it – whatever that means.
you people are such waste of time. i always try to converse much to offer you much flexibility in getting in a conversation but you disappoint me every time with your cheap one liners. you just picked my last line because it suited most to your excuses? and then you say you want discussions. i have had it.
nevermind…obviously with your knowledge of the world you cant make it out that no where at current, there exists an islamic caliphate in the world or the true islamic system in any muslim country. so if you think muslims are that unimpressive, that cuz they pretty much followed and borrowed an incapable system like bharat. that system is the cause of muslim disrespect. but while youve given up your lives for it, islam will revive in its true forms. and yeh who knows if its 1000 years or more. but i do know that its not bharat that can pull off that with a borrowed ideology and incapability, it just cant do it dude, theres no capacity in it. it has to be islam and it has to be pakistan. please try whatever ways you want, at least for your own satisfaction in knowing what i said is right. go on
amused, you cant correct the problem with another problem. its time you get it. and, you cant become what you dream of by standing on shoulders of other nations. that means, bharat is a crippled country, you know why? because it does not possess an own original ideology and capability. you cant do it man. please go on and try but its not possible because you are followers.
for your caste system there is only one way, abolish it completely. which means dalits now stand equal to pandits. can you frankly pull off this much in your hearts? i guess not. scheduling classes will not work and is not the solution. again, you dont fix problems with another problem. but i want you to try out all ways, at least thats how you know someone is right !
@respect
Lets not blame Layla … she is a burqa clad ‘old and experienced’ poster here who has proudly posted millions of articles(though worthless) blaming India for everything and hailing Pakistan being a such a cute Angel crying all the time for peace
She has spent her entire life hating ‘Hindoo’ India.
She has LOST the ability to read and comprehend properly as she is OLD.She is graduated from Madarasa in Quetta(1970’s batch) but keeps saying ‘dude’ to show off how western she is.
Lets be sympathetic to this bujurg Layla
Well said Layla well done.
It is not the public so much as the those elements within the Hindu political elite, your country’s foreign office included, that need to be purged before a begining can be made towards a properous and peaceful region.
When the facist Hindutva elements begin to poison the minds of the ordinary Hindus you have carnage in Gujjarat, murder of Chrisrians etc……
On top of that you have your government which does not allow it’s people to watch Pakistani dramas lest the public realise.. hey….they are no different form us, speak the same language, eat similar food, OH and their dramas ar much better than ours..! How can the people of India learn about the real Pakistan.
TV and films is one medium where Indians can learn about the real Pakistanis not the one’s made up in you films and the rest of media.
As for your statement ‘….listening to whatever suits you…and discard ….” but that’s what you do too, and everyone else……it all part of learning, evaluating then accepting and rejecting the assertions of a writer. At least Pakistani media have the guts to publish the good the bad and the ugly against Pakistan……..not seen much of that in the freedon loving, free-speech mad Indian media about India………
India army is not in a position to fight. In the words of Cohen the Indian army is dysfunctional.
If you want to know what an average Indian(I doubt there is any)thinks about Pakistan,visit the facebook page which it created in defence of Molly Norris.
Indians are spewing hatred and venom against Pakistan though the issue is Islam and 20M muslims also live in India and many more in Iran.
Spot on ANONYMOUS.
Whenever an Indian visists a site that is reportign on India and Pakistan or on Pakistan alone, you get a slimy worms crawling out of the gutter in Calcutta or Bombay but mostly from Europe and lodge themselves on to the pages of the site and squirt out thier venom against Pakistan.
Their comments about Pakistan and Pakistanis woild make one ashamed to be sharing a border with these non-human forms called the Hinduta facist brigade.
OH amused and abused stupid indian, Same thing will happen to india as USSR, it was difficult to divide, but it happened As it is said, it is easy break a big thing than the smaller one.
Amused – we know what ordinary Indian thinks!!!! the same as ordaniary Pakistani will think- thye all want peace–
but it is dogs like Thackery, BJP party, extremist Hindus that are playing games, well you cant expect PAkistan to just watch, they also retaliate, India needs to carry on with its life and stop attacking Pakisatn on every occasion it finds!!!! be it cricket, or politics!!! India is obsessed with PAkistan!!!!!!!!! like Sheikh Rashid Said.
It works two ways!.If the Indians were stripped from their nukes Pak and possibly China would end its sorry existence within days!!.That would benefit entire humanity….
History and politics are all about if’s,when’s and but’s!.
If India and Israel is afraid of anyone that is Pakistan. That is why they want to defang Pakistan and make it a toothless Tiger. But InshAllah we still have some Soldiers of Allah among us.They are protecting Islam.
Allah says in Quran 3:54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
Nobody would have imagined that the Interior Minister of Chile,who is a Jew,was responsible for charges against Sai-ur-Rahman.
it is an international propaganda agaisnt PAkistan to show the world that we are sending terroist all over the world!!! this game of RAW, Mossad and CIA wont work, they plans will always fail at the end, just like in Afghanistan, Swat, Balochistan…. they had to kill there own created Taliban leaders and give PAkistan new weapons!!!!!
Pakistan will INSHALLAH always be head of there plans!!!!
it is nothing new, India and WEST has habit of barking at PAkistan, but Pakistan does what itwants!!!! what could India and USA do about PAkistan and CHINA Nucleus Reactor deal??/ they now have to put up with it…
ALLAH is with PAKISTAN!!!!
@Jasim
You said “Pakistan does what itwants”
Ohhh I see… thats why Pakistan has killed 30,000 civilians plus 3,000 soldiers of its OWN since WOT???
So you wanted to do that? Right? or Wrong?
Long article.
Cannot really make out what the author is trying to say.
But Pakistan should stop overestimating its geo strategic relevance and its illusion of bening indispensable.
Pakistan is definitely relevant to the region, but it cannot expect that every one will forever turn a blind eye to its double dealings on the grounds of indispensability.
Trying to play both sides is a negative and short term approach.
It may be effective in a short term,but in the longer term it will lead to nothing but disaster.
Read the conclusions s second time!
Kashmir:
Positions are already so well know.India will not redraw its borders and Pakistan calls it core issue.Will remain intractable till both views are bridged or one side gives up.
Trade:
Actually India has already offered greater trade and MFN treaty and as far as i know,Pakistan has still NOT granted India MFN status(which under WTO its obliged to) fearing economic domination by India.
Nuclear proliferation:It has faced enough trouble by always being asked to do the Gandhi ji non- violence act.The countries which ask India are some of the most violent themselves.
India’s strategic confusion:
Overblown.
Fact is India has an unbroken democracy since independence.Despite so many troubles,it has never had Martial law.Its economy is growing at a sustained pace.
India appears confused in it internal problems like that of Kashmir,Maoists,Nagas etc.That is because its always a tough thing to fight or take action against your own people.
As far as external enemies are concerned,India is largely united against them.
So from yo say you won’t have peace. So much for your ‘Gandiji’ act.
Don’t keep harping on about your democracy. We know what little it is worth.
What twisted opion youhave of India. Do you live on thi planet or for that matter in this region? Ask each of India’s neighbour if it is happy with it. You will get a resonating NO. Where do you get your histroy lessons from? RSS by the sounds of it.
It gets worse. You think finds it tough to kill Kashmiris. For God’s or Bughwans sake do your self a favour and educate yourself on issues that are so critical in to the region you live in. You are making yourself a laughing stock; the villiage idiot.
A country used to martial law interspersed with brief episodes of democracy will hardly know what living in a democracy means.
Does Pakistan even know what its original constitution was?
Ever general or leader comes along and makes and uses it as per his or her fancy.
BTW as to how India and Pakistan is perceived you are free to think what you like.
How Pakistan’s neighbors and world sees Pakistanis and Pakistan is there for all to see.
http://www.newser.com/story/88125/pakistanis-pose-as-indians-after-ny-bomb-scare-reuters.html
Forget about the Kashmiris!
I visit our Kashmir ,you don’t.The only liitle support you have is among the fundametalist sunni elememts in the valley valley.
Can you name one kashmiris faction APART from Geelani who supports Pakistan.
The rest of kashmir lJammu,Doda,Leh,Kargil,Drass have no problems and its people hate Pakistan and all it supporters.
AND Kashmiris have it much better than the Pakistanis.
Even a Geelani is allowed to live nd openly express hi vies.
Look at what you do:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/13/pakistan-airstrike-kills-_n_535281.html
Bombing your OWN Pakistani citizens,fellow Muslims!
And here you pretend to espouse the Islamic cause.
This has NEVER happened in kashmir,even during the worst day.
KAshmiris are not blind or stupid,they wwaht you and your motives really are.
Only one thing left for me to say using your own phrase:
‘… you are free to think what you like.’
The truth hurts you people. You have assumed I know nothing about Kashmir.
For Gods sake child, when are you going to grow up. If you are so concerned about Geelanis (‘Even a Geelani is allowed to live nd openly express hi vies.’ ,) we have a Prime Minister who is Geelani. Wake up. See things are they are. Take off your Hindu glasses.
You really need someone to wake you up from your dream before you do yourslef further mental harm. When did you last vist Pakistan part of Kashmir (‘ AND Kashmiris have it much better than the Pakistanis.’).
Your problem is much deeper than I imagined. You suffer from selctive amnesia. When did you last visit IOK. Did they not tell you how the your dysfuntional army (now recruiting prostitures) hav eraped, killed , maimed women and children.
Where were you born anyway. You don’t seem to be of human form. Certaily don’t possess a miond that is capable of thinking independently.
“Where were you born anyway. You don’t seem to be of human form. Certaily don’t possess a miond that is capable of thinking independently.”
I could be wrong but this sounds neither peaceful nor tolerant, coming from the followers of the most peaceful and tolerant religion in the world…
There are many views on Kashmir,depending on which side one is.
Pakistan often cites Kashmir as the unfinished agenda of partition.It claims that Kashmir has a cultural and historical affinity to Pakistan being a majority muslim area .
India claims that the accession of Kashmir (claimed to be forged according to Pakistan) Raja Hari Singh finalized the issue.And that Kashmir is equally linked to India culturally,historically and by religion.India after all has almost as many Muslims in India as in Pakistan.
Then there is the resolutions by the UN.Pakistan says India is not complying with them.India says Pakistan has not withdrawn from Kashmir it controls so there can be no progress.Compliance of UN resolution was to start only when Pakistan withdrew totally from kashmir.NOT India.You can check the position on UN sites if you like.
And then there is the view that Pakistan really wants Kashmir as important rivers flowing into Pakistan are presently in Indian Kashmir,which gives India great leverage.
BY the fact that India lets SAS Geelani,leader of one faction of the APHC live,give sermons,openly espouse his cause is the democratic space he has.
A lot of countrie would either have bumped him off or locked away for life or sent to exile abroad.
If he wanted he could even participate in state elections like Sajjad Gani Lone ,another seperatist leader in the APHC had done.
And do not pretend to know a part of my country more than yours.
Are even aware of the dynamics in kashmiri poitics. Have you cared to see why there is a hardline and a softline faction in APHC.
Do you even know of the cross currents in defining Kashmiriyat .
Have you cared to see what the JKLF stood for?
Do you know the ground conditions in the Shia area,the buddhist areas and the hindu areas of J&K.
Stopping kidding yourself.
Kashmir is not the black and white issue Pakistan claims to make it out nor does pakistan have ant automatic entitlement to Kashmir.
rajk srticle much more mature than urs lol…stop living in wonderland face the reality(pak on itself verge of collapsing).
Maybe you forgot the last human rights day in kashmir when more than 5000 protesters were chanting slogans”PAKISTAN ZINDABAD ” “INDIA MURDABAD” DONT BE STUPID, EVEN INDIANS HATE INDIANS. there are many links , you will get easily.
In the valley in Srinagar!
Ever cared to see what the people of Doda, Kargil, Dras, Jammu,Leh, Ladakh have to say on the issue!
Does the valley speak for entire J&K!
Who allows them to hold such protests openly?
Why is curfew not imposed and such protest absolutely prevented?
How are the separatist leaders allowed to openly and freely address such meeting?
They have the right to protest no problem,BUT they will not be allowed to impose their will on a equally large section that has no problems with India.
@Striver
Unlike pak we DONT kill our people on the ORDERS of a foreign country.
Your ANGEL ARMY killed 1 million muslims of Bangladesh and you call yourself being a leader for world muslims ummah?
Your ANGEL ARMY has killed 30,000 of your OWN muslims since WOT.
YOU ARE THE REAL LAUGHING STOCK
100,000 Kashmiris died because of Pakistanis starting terrorism.Kashmir used to be a paradise before your pussy terrorist landed in kashmir since your ARMY is a HIJRA and couldnt defeat ‘Hindoo’ India.
Dont teach us what to read or not…you should TEACH and FORCE your own pakis as pakis LOVE trained like a dog by its ARMY.
We dont have hundreds of sites banned UNLIKE pak.
Unlike you we dont raise FALSE JIHAD/FATWA on the basis of verses of Koran.
Go and EDUCATE yourself by getting outside of India and STOP believing what your traitor ARMY teaches you.Its good time you stop going to Madarasa.
rajik brother -
I will put forwrad Pakistan views:
Kashmir- we all know what Pakistan wants, that is freedom of KAShmir, like the AZAAD KAshmir fo PAkistan, India needs to do the same, it cant claim that India side of KAshmir are happy- you got to be joking
Trade-
Pakistan wants to work on its trade, and is working hard on it, hence the trade is increasing – just like another country if it seeing another country effecting its trade or business it would stop it- Look at China in India?/
Overblown – Pakistan has its problem with balochistan and Waziristan area, but ALHUMDULLILAH our troops have shown them there might and shut them up,,, india has amny internal problems like you listed – but not everyone can be happy?
Regarding PAKISTAN stance on INDIA in matter of WAR— my friend every sould is united on that!! e
Pakisatn has been rules by martial which is a downside, but Pakistan has still progress look at the reports of 2005-08 pakistan economy was booming, till the plans of West, Raw and Moassad started to cuase troulbe in SWAT, BAlouchistan and Wizirstan, but ALHHUMDULILAH we are coming out of that patch and our economy is recoverying and like always in past – it will recover to its peak again ….
May ALLAH give people from both sides to think logicially and work on Unity and freedom of people!!
which idiot saying our economy booming..v are not even in top most developing economies even on ppp basis.v secured 142 plcace on HDI.STILL SOME OF US LIVE IN WONDERLAND.WAKE UP GUYS OUR COUNTRY GOING NOWHERE….
Chinese Defence Minister met Gen Kiyani and they should join hand in hand and drive the agressor america out of the region with its spies and drama staging officials. Then it should be india’s turn if it can live like a good neighbour OK otherwise teach the banya a lesson too. Enough is enough!!!!
First let Gen Kayani make up his mind that he needs to drive the Amricans out of pakistan
On the contrary,we want Afghanistan and the border areas to be the graveyard for Americans,as we did for USSR.Even India will benefit.
You did nothing in USSR.
All you did was provide a conduit and communications for the Billions of Dollars of US and Saudi military and financial aid(and your generals pocketed a few billions themselves).
Were the Stinger missiles crucial to Afghans made or donated by Pakistan!!!
Even today Pakistanis heavily reliant on free US weapons ,aid and money.
Ever wonder,if pakistan were so powerful ,why does it swallow and take up a drone you know here every now and then!!!!
Ho wlittle knowledge you have. Received from ‘the free media’ of you rcountry no doubt.
Think about you fool .Pakistan saved you Hindu neck as well by standing up the Russians. Yes with a LITTLE help from US. You think you could have done it on your own? It was the most sophisticated army second only to US. Think about that.
Now you are going to ask me. Ho wdid Pakistan save India’s neck? Lets have your answer in 30 words and see if you have a brain on your little shoulders.
Oh PLEASE….Ignorance si so rampant amongst you lot. Where do you think India is buying its weapons from……think ……think …think….Do you need help?
Pakisat relies on free weapons from America LOL them you must be ashamed that your country still doesnt have the guts to attack us even though they blamed BOMBAY attacks on us!!!!
Pakistan deserves free weapons and money from America, because it was America that created the mess of Afghanistan and Russia, and gave so much weapons to afghans, and so what if PAkistanbn pocketed on them???? it deserves to get more…
it is the west and raw that play games in PAkistan, and when PAkistan army fight, they should get money and weapons from America, at the end American pllan to cause trouble in PAkistan and then it has to give weapons and money to PAkistan to finish of its failed PAlns!!!! we deserve it—
and as for your country , you need to see where India gets its weapons from!!!
lets face the fact INDIA oR PAKISTAN cannot survive without USA businesss or Weapons!!!!
OH I WONDER WHO JUST INKED ONE OF THE BIGGEST WEAPON DEAL WITH USA!!!! INDIA—
if india is so advanced as all the indiand thinks, it should make its own weapon and not go to America!!!!!
But for Indians it is hard to digest that no matter how mcuh india complains to America about PAkistan, the west still gives PAkisatn the weapons and the funds- and we deserve it
Forgot to add the Saudi Billions,the iranians and most important of all the afghans themselves.
In the 80s US and Saudi pumped in as much mones to exceed the GDP of Pakistan at that time.
Keep on kidding yourself!
Why dont you apply the ‘free knowledge ‘ you have to save your own country!
”The Executive Board of the IMF approved the loan under the $11.3 billion standby arrangement, signed in November 2008, to help Pakistan avoid default on external payments.”
http://tribune.com.pk/story/13654/imf-approves-1-13b-loan-tranche/
You cannot even pay your own debts and you dream on saving others!
Hey no one yet tells me why you guys tolerate DRones,blackwater and begging from everyone!!
Even your helicopters run on spare parts provided FREE by as small a countrty like Turkey!!!!
”The prime minister of Turkey assured President Asif Ali Zardari that his country would provide Pakistan with the spare parts of Cobra helicopters free of cost, underlining the growing cooperation between the two countries in different fields.”
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20101\25\story_25-1-2010_pg7_12
THank your lucky stars that Pakistan is always in some sort of truoble, so that your freinds keep giving you handouts!!!
You expect a country thet cannot even provide for it sforces TODAY had the capability of taking on the Russian in the 80s!!!
Perhaps only your free mind and media comes up with that!!!
Will the World Notice Israel’s Nuclear Proliferation?
Secret South African documents reveal that Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to the apartheid regime, providing the first official documentary evidence of the state’s possession of nuclear weapons.
The “top secret” minutes of meetings between senior officials from the two countries in 1975 show that South Africa’s defence minister, PW Botha, asked for the warheads and Shimon Peres, then Israel’s defence minister and now its president, responded by offering them “in three sizes”. The two men also signed a broad-ranging agreement governing military ties between the two countries that included a clause declaring that “the very existence of this agreement” was to remain secret.
The documents, uncovered by an American academic, Sasha Polakow-Suransky, in research for a book on the close relationship between the two countries, provide evidence that Israel has nuclear weapons despite its policy of “ambiguity” in neither confirming nor denying their existence.
The Israeli authorities tried to stop South Africa’s post-apartheid government declassifying the documents at Polakow-Suransky’s request and the revelations will be an embarrassment, particularly as this week’s nuclear non-proliferation talks in New York focus on the Middle East.
They will also undermine Israel’s attempts to suggest that, if it has nuclear weapons, it is a “responsible” power that would not misuse them, whereas countries such as Iran cannot be trusted.
South African documents show that the apartheid-era military wanted the missiles as a deterrent and for potential strikes against neighbouring states.
contd…http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/International/24-May-2010/How-Israel-offered-to-sell-South-Africa-nuclear-weapons-report
Shout as much as we want to about the spoilt-child like behaviour of Israel, nbody is going to hear us. They are all deaf, bumb and blind, selectively.
The nuclear proliferation had and to an extent still has an international network that has its tentacles spread far wider then we know. Pakistan is the ‘wipping boy of the west’ is how once a Pakistani general described Pakistan’s relationship with the west.
Indians, ex-Rsussian nuclear scientists, CIA, Mossad re part of that network of some wealthy business blessed by their governments.
So why do they single out Pakistan. Understanding why they call Pakistan’s atomic bomb ‘Islamic bomb’ will puts things into perspective. A ‘nuclear club’ has no Musllim members and that is how they want to keep it.
Manmohan Singh wants to make “major effort” with Pakistan.
A ploy so that Pakistan can be pressurised to go into North Waziristan.
It will never happen,InshaAllah.
A Momin cannot be bitten twice.
@ NoNonSense
hope you’re well. sir PM Manmohan Singh’s peace overtures to Pakistan have nothing whatsoever to do with the imminent operation in NWA, its a totally separate issue. For India, like us, war would be an absolute tragedy and an option that is NOT even on the table. India’s burgeoning economy would not be able to withstand hostilities and i reckon it would take years and years to recover – do you really think they would take that risk? you may laugh but the enmity that swells within some Indians is in a minority, exactly like it is here. if anything the Indians want to know us more from what i have seen and experienced first hand.
please dont think i’m having a ‘go’ at you here, its a general message for the readership and i just happened to mention it here in my reply to you. i come on this forum and all i see is hate-mongering. its bloody pathetic to read here most of the time. very few individuals are talking sense and being constructive. most of my Pakistani brothers and sisters on this forum are immature and get confrontational. if someone writes rubbish, put them in their place by using facts and figures. why the hell do we have to resort to abusing their religions and beliefs??? thats downright xenophobic, racist , whatever you want to call it. what the hell has that got to do with anything? IF someone does slander Pakistan or our ideology, why do you need to even bother writing a reply? its damn obvious that whoever it is has come here with a specific purpose and thats to stir emotions and anger. why do our patriots fall for this crap? why dont you show we are Pakistani’s and give this forum AND our country a good name? GIVE IT THE DIGNITY IT DESERVES. one can make a point and assert their beliefs and convictions in the most pleasant way, there’s no need to resort to vilification, abuse and hatred because fascists do that.
on another note, PM Singh actually wants peace with Pakistan and occupies a very similiar position to that of PM Gillani i.e both are sincere but there are ‘forces’ that are conspiring against their good intentions. you will figure it out if you read about Indian politics and what’s happening across the border. PM Singh is under intense pressure but whatever your opinions of him are, the guy is NOT anti-Pakistan – i can safely say this.
lets just look at ourselves for a change and get OUR house in order first before we start looking acroos the border and see what’s going on. we have pressing problems like a contracting economy, extremists within our midst who wish to coercively impose their warped brand of Islam upon us AND an incompetent government which hasnt delivered in two and a half years of power. we are so quick to insult and judge India, let them be. they are getting on with things in their country the best way they can and good luck to them. its high time we did the same too..
war and hostility are not a solution, they are mere catalysts to destruction and infinite suffering afterwards. i’m sorry to say PKKH but your forum is not what it was at one time. i beseech you, as i did a few days earlier, give it back the dignity and respect it deserves. at the end of the day, we are ALL ambassadors for Pakistan and each of us has a duty and obligation to our motherland.
what a sweet innocent child. do you ever come out of your kindergarten?
@?????
Mashallah, a brother thats blessed with brains and maturity and everyone else is a child compared to him. well done. dh. my comment above is spot on, this forum has many immature zealots and you have proved it.
pentrey badalney ka boht showq hai na tumhe? having different names doesnt change your IQ, remember that. if you are one of the moderators, its a pity this comment is all you could muster. get back to moderating and not commenting cuz thats way out of your league. if your part of the readership then atleast say something constructive, positive and thought provoking. your mentality and immaturity is evident in what you have written. i dont think this forum is a place for your like. enjoy it while it lasts, the childhood years are the best years.
Well done Ali
Why do you ask, havn’t you got a friend to play with in your kindergarden?
@ Striver
i dont know why you have resorted to this type of behaviour, i wasnt rude to you at all, even said i wasnt having a go at you but you didnt read that bit. dh. if you understand your mother tongue Urdu, then here’s something for you: koi sehi baat karey tou uss baat ki taeed karo, tanqeed nahin. agar TUM main itna zarff hai tou koi samjhdaar baat ya jwab likho – i wana see – fazool main apna awr doosron ka waqt kyun brbaad krte ho? panggey kyun ley rahey ho? tumhari guftagu ke lehje se yeh baat huvaida hai ke tum kitni akkal awr tameez ke haamil ho. pta tumhey alif bey (a,b) ka nahin awr yahan aa kr bqwas likte ho?
hope you get it. happy reading and merry times. i think you should do something constructive with your time that will improve your intellect and social manners. my brother your comments, like you, leave alot to be desired.
@ striver
forgive the child. he has been around here for sometime and all he is doing is picking up fights with pakistanis and criticizing pakistan. indeed we are a rich nation and we have all kinds of people like pervez hoodboy also. he is the type of pakistanis that blame pakistan for all sins of the world, even the ones committed by the world. thats why he is not practical and childish. don’t carry on with it. he is only here to needlessly critisize pakistan and pakistanis. ignore.
@Ali Alamzeb,Hope you are well and kicking.
What I meant was the ultimate effect like “magas ko baagh mein janay na dena……..”
Moreover,”Woh baat saaray fasanay mein………”
Now,let me tell why I said what I said:
India,nowadays,(may be it always has been since 47)is subservient to Us vis-a-vis Pakistan
When Pakistan says our major threat is India and does not agree to move troops from eastern border,US advises India to give loly-pops to Pakistan,and all sort of overtures(sometimes somersaults) start coming from there.Then US is emboldened to ask(may be order)Pakistan to move forces towards NWA.
No villification just re-emphasizing Chanakya doctrine.We must realise that MMS,like Obama,are hostages to their establishments.Only he not being anti-Pakistan does not help.We all know what Sonia’s thinking is about Pakistan.
I will go the extent of saying that India’s Maha-Bharat dream is not restricted to Asia.Indian mentality is quite evident from latest
events with US.WH chief protocol officer is an Indian Girl.I saw a video of Obama welcoming a guest at WH(A scene also developed when this girl fell down the stairs).So Indian aims are big.
After your post above,others responded,to which you thought it was me ,changing names.I will never do that specially after having exchanged an e-mail.
But let me admit that your comments have become a “HUSN” of PKKH.God Bless.
my brother i will say again, my comments about hate mongering in this forum are spot on. i know everything there is to know about the chanakya ideology, i know about Sonia Gandhi and maybe alot more of Indian history than you. thats not being arrogant, its being factual cuz in age i’m your senior so just learn to show abit of common courtesy dost. you say my comments have become a ‘HUSN’ of PKKH. man i doubt it if you could even translate one line of urdu that i wrote to you otherwise you would have tried to understand what i was saying to you and i said it by referring to you as a brother.
i dont pick fights. i was agressive the first time i came on this forum but that was due to emotion – i thought this was an intelligent forum but people were making such ridiculous statements. i even apologised on two seperate occasions. i dont need to justify myself one bit.
instead of talking about how we can improve our country and make it better, we harp on about India and its Hindu population. please dont defend those rulers that have given Pakistan a bad name and have left us up a creak without a paddle. none of our rulers have EVER taken a moral stand, why? because they are corrupt and a corrupt person can never make a principled stand. thats the reason why we suffer today.
by the way we never exchanged mails and i’m sure not here to criticise others – only those that are irresponsible. i find absolutely nothing wrong with the critical comments i have made about some of the memebers here. we say in Punjabi, ‘kaan chitta hegga’. kheyr, rehne do. yeh baat tumhari samajh main nahin aane wali so lets end it here.
@ Striver
you know nothing about me or what i do to make an assumption that i criticise and blame Pakistan for everything. SIMPLY NOT TRUE SIR. i’m vigorously and passionately patriotic and support Pakistan’s cause. this is evident if you have read some of my recent posts. the ONLY conclusion i can come to after analysing THIS particular comment of yours is that when you and your like have nothing constructive or argumenative to say, you resort to below the belt remarks in an effort to justify yourself. dimaag ap logon ke paas hota nahin awr tanqeed krne keliye tum log apni tmam zindagi waqf kr dete ho! i wouldnt be surprised at all if you are one of the moderators or if they are party to your comments – sir it doesnt make an iota of difference to me because i stand by my comments. brother you should have been a circus clown because you certainly made me laugh and sadly, thats the ONLY positive thing i can say about you. i hate to be drawn into conflict or a war of words with one or two Pakistani brothers, but the thing is you and a few like you must grow up and take responsibility on this forum instead of behaving like jokers and inciting hatred. Allah ki zaat hee tumhe hidaayat de, tera bhi khuda hee hafiz hai mere dost.
MAMOHAN SINGH – after all those talks and threats about attacking PAkistan and now we have peace talks lol— we say in punjabi “geethay di khoti, utay aa khalootee”
“A Momin cannot be bitten twice”
Yeah but a momin perhaps can blow himself up again twice for sure as we can see in pakistan.
Oh did i hear a bomb blast in pak?????
Indians hate Pakistanis down to their last bone. They have taken advantage of every weak situation of ours, be it Kashmir and their troop landings in the 40’s, East-Pakistan and their insurgency or the RAW’s Baluchistan connection.
Fact: New Delhi will never give up it’s occupation of Muslim Kashmir.
Fact: It is India who has always crossed the international border – not Pakistan.
Fact: New Delhi is engaged in a water war against the Pakistani people.
Fact: Indians can not be trusted – PERIOD!
Fact: Any effort to conduct any kind of low or high level meeting with New Delhi is a waist of time, effort and Pakistani tax payers money!
who says india’s economy is developing. its a fake development made by anti chinease and anti pakistanis. A country with more than 20% of its population homeless, sleeping on streets, nothing to eat can be developed economy nation. look at gulf states, even a labor with 150$ monthly lives in an air conditioned room .and india is developing?????????????????????????. HE/SHE will be the biggest stupid in this world who will say india is developing nation..
Ermm…we all know that ‘developing’ does not mean ‘developed’…do you?
and DEVELOPING only 15 mile radius ob Banglore, mumbai and delhi – and showing the world that we are becoming most developed is really not TRUE either??????
this figure is more than 30%in pakistan dear….fake devlopment????????what does it means u lolly polly..
If you are stating Holbruk only as your God, Then I don’t think there is anything else left for me to say now brother. Maybe it is because sick people like you who have their mindset fully packed with the garbage of idiotic assumptions about your Indian brothers like me, and that is the root cause of the fact that you are ready to allow looting honor of the holy(PAK) land of present Pakistan by the outsiders who stayed out thousands of miles away of your land. Its really a shame on you people as because u had given the ancient and enchanted peace of earth to the white people of America and to few billion dollars beg.
here is the link to the original lecture given by Stephen Cohen
http://www.brookings.edu/speeches/2009/0409_pakistan_cohen.aspx
His lecture ends at “…hope is not a policy”.
The rest of it after that is a fabrication by this website. The fact that you have to fabricate and lie about INdian involvement with the Taliban in NWFP shows how blinded by hate you are.
PLease dont further misguide your already misguided population.
….Ok so what is your point here. Add somenting intelligent and sensible for us to read.
God this is so frustrating. Have these people got a brain that is capable of assimilating inforamtion other than that presneted to them by their own media and government (same thing).
I am going to use a phrase here much used by a couple of your countrymen on this site:
‘..you are free to think what you like.’
The truth lies elsewhere. Seek and you shall find it.
By the way. Ever thought of giving this lecture to your own media when reporting on Pakistan. OOPS….I hear a rattling noise in your skull…..it you’re brain… trying to esacpe from that dark empty prison.
@ Striver
‘Have these people got a brain that is capable of assimilating inforamtion..’ nahin yaar, sari duniya ka teyka tou tuney liya huwa hai na, didnt you know that?
Striver keep striving, eventually you’ll get there. shaabash mere bacchey. sabsey pehle apney dimaag ka ilaaj krvao then think of going after others. w
OOPS. Sorry Ali I was answering ‘KEEPITCLEAN. I think its the layout that is confusing.
no problem. i let it go. its forgotten man. take great care. Pakistan Paendabad
Dude,
Are YOU mad??? You have been caught lying. You are saying someone said something when he didnt really say it. You idiot. You have caught with your pants down, stupid.
And you dont get such a simple point that the last paragraph that you think is so important was never said by Stephen Cohen (per your first comment), you dimwit.
Now do you have point beside the personal comments.
I am been visiting this website for last few years and am beginning to feel most of the posters here are either Indians and Pakistanis living overseas, young students or are linked with the defense establishment in one way or the other. Not sure if that’s a representative sample of the opinions on either side i.e., a billion and a half people…!!!
…and would you please enlighten us as to what the opinion of the ‘billion and a half people is…’ is.
I ask this most respectfully.
i have no idea…do you?
@ reality bites
i think you maybe right but whatever the facts are, there’s too much damn pettiness, squabbling and immaturity here for my liking. some peope are saying some interesting and eye-opening things here whilst others just want to get involved in a slanging match. there are people here from India & Pakistan, local and non local (overseas) and yes there are also members here who have affiliations or family connections with the military. take care. AA
TO ALI ALAMZEB:
APOLOGIES To Ali. I had not been responding to your posts when I used the kind of language that I did. There is a misundeerstanding that I think is caused by the latout of the posts which makes it difficult to distinguish who is answering who when more than one person reponds to the same same post. Kindergarden jibe was meant for someone-esle but if you llok at the post it seems that I have been reposnding to yours.
@ Striver
hey no problem, i let it go. its forgotten already man.
take great care.
i think you’re right, there is a major issue with the way
replies and answers are scripted out here. any ways
thanks for that, much appreciated
Pakistan Paendabad
Folks, if you stop hating each other for a moment, you would realize we are one and a half billion people, almost one-fourth of the world’s population…!!! If we could somehow resolve our differences and solve our basic problems of poverty, illiteracy and social evils, we could be a force to reckon with on the international stage…
I can only say:
HAI IS ZOOD PASHEMAN KA PASHEMAN HONA
OR
BETTER LATE THAN NEVER
We need to get over the silly pettiness first !!
Bharat Imposes Water War on its Neighbors on Lines of Chanakya
Indian hegemony in the region has found a new means to dominate its smaller neighbours, exploiting the limited commodity of water. Scarcity of this basic resource is a global phenomenon due to extreme climatic changes, and while countries in other regions have devised mechanisms to amicably share the meagre resource, in South Asia, owing to Indian intransigence and ‘might is right’ attitude, the situation is worsening very rapidly. India is not respecting any obligation of upper/lower riparian country, international law and bilateral treaties. Its total disregard of the need of other countries for this basic resource is causing unprecedented frustration in all its neighbours, especially Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal.
India does not only want to fulfil its insatiable and lavish water needs at the cost of the survival of its neighbouring countries, but is also employing water as a weapon, terming it the “Aqua Bomb”. The progenitor of Indian statecraft, Chanakya, in his notorious treatise Arthashastra, has recommended: “Waging war by using rivers through stopping water to impose drought or flooding to destroy life/property, and subjugate rival states”. This has unabashedly been borrowed to become a part of Indian state policy. Immediate effect of this Indian design has already become visible in its three neighbouring countries in the shape of desertification of huge fertile lands, intrusion of salinity, scarcity of drinking water, ruining environment/biodiversity, excessive deposit of silt causing floods, elimination of water transport/navigational means, reduction in fisheries, inundation, lack of water for power generation, and so on. Bangladesh and Nepal need to ensure that due to their passivity and for personal gains of a handful of individuals, coming generations are not deprived of this basic resource. Detailed deliberation on water related issues of Bangladesh and Nepal can help its people identify the nature of the looming crises, expose Indian evil designs and take measures to conserve this resource. This is essential not only for the survival of the people of Bangladesh and Nepal but also their future generations.
contd…
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Opinions/Columns/26-May-2010/Indias-water-hegemony/1
Fake talks of peace aside, these are the ground realities.
@Layla the burqa clad OLD LADY
Seems like you somehow learned how to copy-paste but without using brain.SORRY to bust you again… you are getting OLD and cant understand simple things.
About water ‘dispute’… there is NO dispute at all. Even your own respected Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said…
“Shah Mehmood Qureshi : India was not stealing Pakistan’s share of water and it is being wasted due to mismanagement”
http://www.geo.tv/4-30-2010/64114.htm
Now the above link is not a Zionist or Hindoo link… its your OWN paki link.
Layla … you have no CREDIBILITY… you dont know what your Govt says… and making FOOL of your FELLOW pakis… you should RETIRE and spend your last days in some internet-less area in some part of Pakistan(in case there is)
Dear Layla
why you forget that Chanakya belonged to that part of India which is now Pakistan.He carried blood from punjab.He taught the real lessons how to deal with an enemy like you.You and your army always poisoned wells and lakes before withdrawing areas in Rajstan and Punjab in 1965 and 1971 wars with India.US does not wish atomic battle between India and PAKISTAN.when you know very well that whole of Pakistan and Bangladesh depend upon Indian waters, why you preffered to divide India to make yourself waterless and water dependent.Both religions Hindu and muslims require water for their survival.Why shout now ?
Meanwhile,
In Bharat, Poverty Plagued Families Force Children into Child Labor
Abject poverty has sky rocketed in Bharat in recent years. Despite claims of huge strides in economy, more and more poverty and poor continues to be discovered each year. And now, with this poverty taking toll, poor parents finding it hard to make two ends meet, are finding it easier to send their children to play junkyards than to playgroups and schools. These children of a plagued humanity are forced into playing, eating, drinking, and earning their parents a livelihood in these garbage dumps. BBC has this to report.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/10133159.stm
From rubbish dump to school room in Mumbai
The suburb of Govandi in Mumbai (Bombay) is home to the Indian city’s only rubbish dump. On any given day children work and play here, seemingly unaware of the scorching sun and the stench from the waste heaps.
Among them are probably some of the 8 million children who do not go to school across India. Few people notice their presence.
But in Govandi alone, more than 1,500 children are thought to be out of school.
Since April, education has become a fundamental right for children between six and 14 years old in India. This means that the law will support every child in demanding a free education.
That is the theory; the experience of Govandi shows that the reality is different.
Here, campaigners say the authorities must focus on those children who choose work over education. The challenge ahead is immense.
Lucrative pickings
Across the state of Maharashtra school drop-out rates have fallen to just over 2% from 6% in the last three years. But some children continue to give the classroom a miss.
In Govandi, many work on the dumping ground picking rubbish. They say they make anywhere from $1 (£0.6) to $6 (£4.16) a day.
“The children live so close to the landfill that it is impossible to avoid it. The dumping ground is where they eat, work, play and spend most of their time.
CLICK THE LINK FOR FULL ARTICLE AND PICTURES OF A WRETCHED HUMANITY BEING CONSUMED INTO A SYSTEM OF DECADENCE
A lot of people here have been contemplating peace with India with mere talks as the ultimate solution. That is perhaps how India wants to make peace with Pakistan. The reality is however bitter and ugly. Ikram sehgal, a renowned analyst, takes a look at the possibility for peace between india and pakistan, but emphasizes on core issues and practical steps, rather than preaching and teaching. “Solution” is a good word to ears, but is not the solution in itself. That is something that needs to be looked at.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20105\27\story_27-5-2010_pg3_5
The desire for peace
Peace and good relations between Pakistan and India will remain a dream unless two core issues are sorted out. Kashmir has lingered for over 60 years for a resolution while the one now taking priority is the dispute over water. The water dispute directly threatens the very survival of Pakistan because of the continuing impasse over our access to water supplies from India. India effectively controls water flows into Pakistan that begin in Jammu and Kashmir and has commenced a string of ambitious water projects because of which disputes over water allocation have risen, adding further impediments to a resolution of the Kashmir dispute in the foreseeable future.
Pakistan has a 77 percent dependency on water, the highest amongst the major South Asian countries. In 1948, after India started controlling the flow of river water into Pakistan, the issue became internationalised and after years of negotiations, the World Bank brokered a deal between the two countries in 1960 that became known as the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT). The Treaty provided exclusive rights to India over the eastern rivers Ravi, Beas and Sutlej, whereas the use of western rivers Indus, Jehlum and Chenab were allowed to Pakistan. As per the agreement, the flow of these rivers into Pakistan can neither be stopped nor hindered. A few exceptions in the treaty do allow India to use the water for domestic use and generation of hydroelectric power, but precluding building of any storage thereon. However, India has commenced work on the Baglihar and two other controversial dams on River Chenab named Uri-1 and Uri-2. As far as River Jehlum is concerned, India has started construction work on the Kishanganga Hydropower Project. The resultant squeeze on these two rivers waters downstream will have grave and catastrophic consequences for the agriculture sector of Pakistan with the potential to drastically affect its economy. Moreover, should any dam malfunction or collapse, it will have grave consequences for Pakistan in the shape of massive floods in its areas. A greater perception is developing in the national print and electronic media to make our water rights a cornerstone of our foreign policy, water being the most vital issue for the national security of Pakistan.
The IWT is an excellent mechanism, an example that agreements are possible, provided its functional aspect is held paramount rather than the political. It was signed at a time when water was available in abundance and when climate change was not affecting water supplies. Instead of abandoning a treaty that has managed extremely well despite three wars between the two countries, perhaps it could be revamped keeping the interests of both parties in sight. Unfortunately, the functional aspect is being sacrificed at the altar of politics at present. This issue has been politicised to such an extent that the level of mistrust has soared to new heights, especially on the Pakistani side.
Perhaps new and innovative areas of cooperation can be envisaged outside the treaty. Islamabad has suggested joint watershed management and joint commissioning of environmental studies that would address the emerging concerns arising from reduced flows.
Gordon McKay, professor of Environmental Engineering at Harvard University, has written an excellent piece entitled ‘War or Peace on the Indus’ (The Daily Star, April 26, 2010), which gives honest and unbiased views from the perspective of one who is not a party to the dispute. He says, “Had Baglihar been the only dam being built by India on the Chenab and Jehlum, this would be a limited problem. But following Baglihar is a veritable caravan of Indian projects — Kishanganga, Sawalkot, Pakuldul, Bursar, Dal Huste, Gyspa…the cumulative live storage will be large, giving India an unquestioned capacity to have major impact on the timing of flows into Pakistan.
“This is a very uneven playing field. The regional hegemon is the upper riparian and has all the cards in its hands. This asymmetry means that it is India that is driving the train, and that change must start in India.” He then goes on to explain ways in which India needs to show a spirit of statesmanship to resolve this issue.
The Composite Dialogue process, initiated by Prime Minister Vajpayee and President Pervez Musharraf in January 2004, identified eight issues to be discussed bilaterally between the two countries. A rare opportunity was lost in October 2004 in not going ahead with Musharraf’s pragmatic and flexible ‘out of the box’ solution, which called for demilitarisation of the regions of Jammu and Kashmir, soft borders through travel and trade, granting of maximum autonomy to the five regions of Jammu and Kashmir and withdrawal of Indian and Pakistani forces.
Musharraf’s initiative was a very brave one. Interestingly, it came from a military person and broke new ground. Let us go a little further today and be more controversial in the search for peace. Why not constant and meaningful military-to-military contact, including slots in each other’s training schools and presence in military exercises as observers (and not just a hotline between the DGMOs), to tear down the walls of suspicion in the military mindset? After all, on UN Peacekeeping duties in many troubled areas of the world, the Pakistani and Indian soldiers seem to serve together well, even coming to each other’s help in times of need.
A satisfactory solution of the Kashmir dispute from Pakistan’s point of view is not within reach in the short-term because of the current massive power imbalance in favour of India. The time has come for the adoption of a long-term approach in contrast with our efforts in the past to find an immediate solution. Pakistan must work with India for improving the plight of the Kashmiris through protection of their human rights, starting the natural lateral trade and unrestricted movement across the LoC, reciprocal and substantial reduction in the military presence in the territory and mutually pulling them out of machine gun and mortar range, if not artillery range.
On April 29, 2010, Pakistan and India agreed to the resumption of a high-level dialogue, which had been unilaterally stopped by India since the Mumbai terror attacks. The two nuclear-armed neighbours must move forward for the sake of peace and stability in the region, particularly on the terrorism front. There is now a dire and immediate need to change old mindsets and give way to a new and positive thinking. Both Pakistan and India need to avoid shortsighted policies for political point-scoring or short-term gains, which have resulted in poisoning their relations in the past and diverting their attention from the gigantic task of eradicating poverty and raising the standard of living of the vast mass of their peoples living below the poverty line. Both countries face a social time bomb that is ticking away.
How about this then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk-kbSKoyOg&feature=player_embedded#!
Let me guess…. Zionist news?
Forgot to add the Saudi Billions,the iranians and most important of all the afghans themselves.
In the 80s US and Saudi pumped in as much mones to exceed the GDP of Pakistan at that time.
Keep on kidding yourself!
Why dont you apply the ‘free knowledge ‘ you have to save your own country!
”The Executive Board of the IMF approved the loan under the $11.3 billion standby arrangement, signed in November 2008, to help Pakistan avoid default on external payments.”
http://tribune.com.pk/story/13654/imf-approves-1-13b-loan-tranche/
You cannot even pay your own debts and you dream on saving others!
Hey no one yet tells me why you guys tolerate DRones,blackwater and begging from everyone!!
Even your helicopters run on spare parts provided FREE by as small a countrty like Turkey!!!!
”The prime minister of Turkey assured President Asif Ali Zardari that his country would provide Pakistan with the spare parts of Cobra helicopters free of cost, underlining the growing cooperation between the two countries in different fields.”
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20101\25\story_25-1-2010_pg7_12
THank your lucky stars that Pakistan is always in some sort of truoble, so that your freinds keep giving you handouts!!!
You expect a country thet cannot even provide for it sforces TODAY had the capability of taking on the Russian in the 80s!!!
Perhaps only your free mind and media comes up with that!!!
“Steve”,
If you scroll about halfway up this page, you will find that you posted exactly the same message, except you gave yourself the name ‘Raj’. What’s wrong…did you feel that you needed to use a fake Western name the second time round to better deliver your point?
Piece of advice, first of all: do youself and your nation a favour. Stop trying to ape the white man. Challenge your history of servitude to the West, and try having some pride in your own culture, just for once.
With regard to your post: it is so full of sh!t I don’t even know where to start. What’s this about a ’small’ country like Turkey? A country that is vying for a place in the EU? A country that has been defying the US for around 5 years now by flying sorties into Iraq against separatist Kurdish factions? A country that boasts what many belive is the tenth most sophisticated army in the world? If Turkey is a ‘little’ country, what do you make of Israel, which has been propping up your terrrorist activities in Kashmir for over a decade now? Do you find it less shameful that you sold your dignity down the river when you agreed for the US to monitor your nuclear assets?
The shameful truth for you, “Steve”, is that Pakistan did in fact deal the killer blow to the USSR – that was while she was defending herself against the rapists within the ranks of the Hindustani army. That alone has done more for international politics than the 10,000 brahmins who govern New Delhi have managed in the past 60 years. I don’t know what to tell you dude…just deal with it.
Oh, by the way, my name is Hasan – but I might copy-and-paste this again later on under the name “Brad”, to give myself more credibility…LOL
A
@ Architect
eenth ka jwab patthar se deyna chahiyey.. shabaash, well done my brother, God Bless You!
i would like to censure ‘Steve’ about the misinformation he is spreading. Sir, without clandestine support from the ISI & PA, Russia would not have retreated from Afghanistan, end of. the US would have been left ‘up a creek without a paddle’. our role in aiding the Mujahideen then was pivotal and our frontline role NOW in the war on terrorism is exactly that too. we were victorious then and we will be victorious again, inshallah. it’s all about emaan, i dont see that beyond the brick walls of Wagah.
here’s a fact: i’ll remind ‘Steve’ that West German Intelligence presented the then DG ISI with a brick from the demolished Berlin Wall inscribed:
“To the one who struck the first blow”
now ‘Steve’ Sahb, if you have even an ounce of intelligence, go and figure out what that means.
indeed Pakistan has problems ( you have many of your own too ) and you have mocked my country, i didnt do that. let me tell you now, mark my words: once Pakistan and it’s economy recovers from this quagmire, no one will be able to stop the rise of this country and the sooner this happens the better.
@ Ali Alamzeb,
Not a problem, brother. I have never in my life come across a nation of people so morally deviant that they will resort to these kinds of tactics on bulletin boards.
It pains me to say it, but it’s only Hindustanis who do this; in my personal experience, I’ve seen Hindustani posters copy-and-paste messages from different threads, changing a few keywords to make their point. I’ve seen Hindustani posters sign on with multiple account names, and congratulate ‘each other’ on their posts. This is dastardly behaviour.
But I put my hand on my heart and ask, in complete honesty: what else would you expect from a nation whose army routinely fabricates border conflicts so that senior officers can award themselves medals? Look into it; it’s shocking but true.
A
@ Architect
thanks for your kind reply my brother. the thing is i shouldnt have bothered responded to ‘Steves’ comment. its actually a tell tale sign when people come on the forum and make inciting comments – they are there just to make us angry and emotional and illicit a response, thats it. in other words they just want to ‘wind us up’ and show people ‘look this is how Pakistani’s behave’. we shouldnt fall for these cheap tricks. i even know of forums where people sit specifically to incite hatred and racial tensions and its sad but THEY ARE PAID TO DO JUST THAT. i’m sure you know of this, its all part of the propaganda machine and it churns out s*** after s***, day after day.
concerning the article, India will remain hostile to Pakistan and thats not the general populace, i’m talking here about the military and those hawks in Delhi that shape it’s foreign policies. i dont see the status quo shifting in the foreseeable future but then again, we all live in the hope of a better future and good relations with ALL our neighbours – including Hindustan. having said all this, i still believe we must concentrate on improving our economy and moving away from US subservience and domination because that will spell disaster for us AND our future generations. important decisions need to be made about our sovereignty and just how much dictation are we supposed to allow. we cant cut loose of them immediately because the ongoing war on terrorism is still far from a successful conclusion. so what do we do? i would like to see mid term elections but many people are opposed to that as it may create absolute anarchy within the country. this year is a massive year and it will decide many things. we have a very brave and bold CJ who is prepared to take on anyone and my hope really lies with the independant judiciary we have in place now. they are a beacon of hope for many and i have a feeling they will be calling the shots and, if anything, they could well become the saviours of Pakistan by being able to enforce certain decisions.
anyways my message to you is keep up your good work and comments as you are doing, i’m proud of you my brother. we Pakistani’s must show we are bigger and better than this and inshallah we will prevail. just remember these are the most testing and troublesome times for Pakistan but let me say in Urdu:
mera imaan hai ke Pakistan ki taqdeer (destiny) boht buland hai, yeh mulk aasmaano ko chuwey ga. i firmly believe in this. awr agar Pakistan INN mushkil halaat awr bohranon se nikl geya tou issko koi nahin rok sakey ga.
take great care, kindest regards..
AA
u forget rajk.a much smarter guy than u lol…stop brfooling our own countrymen by living in wonderland.accept the reality…
economy:
nowhere in top 10(offcourse in developing countries)
social indicator
in HDI report v are amongst the bottom(142 place),
people live below poverty line more than 30%
space &tech
v did nothing.no indegeneous made technology.
sports:
if v dnt talk it would be better for us
politics:
in 70 years of independence 60 years dominated by generals.
armed forces:
lost east pakistan to india.shia chin area given to china(even cant hold our own territory)
internal problems:
bombs exploding on hours basis now
still v keep shouting pak zindabad!!!!!!!!!what a tragedy of errors,.
If you scroll about halfway up this page, you will find that you posted exactly the same message, except you gave yourself the name ‘Raj’. What’s wrong…did you feel that you needed to use a fake Western name the second time round to better deliver your point?
Piece of advice, first of all: do youself and your nation a favour. Stop trying to ape the white man. Challenge your history of servitude to the West, and try having some pride in your own culture, just for once.
With regard to your post: it is so full of sh!t I don’t even know where to start. What’s this about a ’small’ country like Turkey? A country that is vying for a place in the EU? A country that has been defying the US for around 5 years now by flying sorties into Iraq against separatist Kurdish factions? A country that boasts what many belive is the tenth most sophisticated army in the world? If Turkey is a ‘little’ country, what do you make of Israel, which has been propping up your terrrorist activities in Kashmir for over a decade now? Do you find it less shameful that you sold your dignity down the river when you agreed for the US to monitor your nuclear assets?
The shameful truth for you, “Steve”, is that Pakistan did in fact deal the killer blow to the USSR – that was while she was defending herself against the rapists within the ranks of the Hindustani army. That alone has done more for international politics than the 10,000 brahmins who govern New Delhi have managed in the past 60 years. I don’t know what to tell you dude…just deal with it.
Oh, by the way, my name is Hasan – but I might copy-and-paste this again later on under the name “Brad”, to give myself more credibility…LOL
@ Ali,
You’re very welcome bro. I’m new to this board, so I’m still getting to know everybody – but I hope that however strongly you and I may disagree on certain subjects, we will both always remember that we are Pakistani first. Actually in this case I agree with you 100% – the sad fact is, however, that our economic development is being hindered to a large extent by an insecure neighbour to our east who still wants our land to be reabsorbed into its own, so that Hindustani mobs can do to our women and sisters what they did to the innocents of Gujarat.
Ultimately, though, there is little opint in blaming them – history has proven that when we want to, we as a nation can accomplish anything. I look forward to hearing from you again, brother.
A
Yeah insecure India whose ECONOMY is booming up as Indians work and gets paid up.
We can never match you… since we DONT like to be a parasite on other countries by blackmailing and killing our own people by daily bomb blasts and drone attacks from foreigh countries.
Killing our own people?
Bomb blast??/
hmmmmm
lets have a look at India!!!
Killing of Muslims and Christians recorded in india
Maoist bombing in India nearly every week, tagretting buses and police
Army killing innocent people in kashmir every day!!!
hmmm i have just listed three facts in 5 seconds…
ever wonder what more we could list if we spent 5 minutes on your fragile india!!!
slumdog hostility and aggression documented here:
http://reformistani.wordpress.com/indian-aggression/
Hi friends. As a newcomer i dont want to mess up with unknown things. But i do want to talk abt untouchables as i myself one of that group. The condition of untouchables in india is far better compared to 80s . In those days there were less educated untouchables and majority of them didnt know abt any welfare plan by govt . I am a engineer completed it purely due to govt help like scholorship. many tribal students have benefitted from these plans. I really thank god for giving me birth in this generation and that too in india . Many candidates of untouchable group have won in election not only through the votes of their community but also by support of upper class ppl. In my lifetime i never faced such situation even in my village as old age groups have been in the process of replacement by new generation. The award for this success goes to our education system and western practice by new generation in this global village. Inspite of all the changes still there is smell of practising of this evil . Which is usual as per humen sociology that for one strata of society to move from lower class to upper class it takes minimum 100-150 years in any age period. It is real even in ancient europe and greek. So now v r in this transition period, it will take its course of time. So as per my experience this evil untouchability is vanishing in my country . The only evil v r facing now is poverty , i think v may need another 40yrs to control it. And one thing to be noticed is in every society v can see the poverty of those ppl who blames god for all their ills inspite of working hard.
AVERY GOOD ARTICLE.IT SHOWS U R NOT BIASED TO PAKISTAN …CONGRATES U R SHOWING A TRUE AND DEEP ANALYSIS OF THE COMPLETE SCENERIO..I LIKE UR ARTICLE..I DO BLV INDIA IS A RISING SUPERPOWER N V CAN LEARN MANY THNGS FRM THEM.
India if desired could have destroyed Pakistan completely in 1971 war but ther are international and national restrictions on it.Big brother can punish younger brother for some tome but it can not and does not wish to wipe out completely because of same origin and shared history unlike Americans and Britishers or turkey or Afghanistan which are allins to Indian culture.Despite lacs of claims by Pakistan to be different than India, both belong to Sindhu culture and Arabs never accept Pakistan as their descendent.Under US pressure, in future Pakistan may like to join India.
why forget that India was exisiting thousands years before Pakistan came into existance. There were so many rulers in India including Moghuls.Why should India hate and compare itself with a noni-entity like Pakistan.India never started a war against Pakistan at any point of time in recent history. Gandhi made Nehru pay Rs 55 crores to Pakistan in 1947 as a share.Still Pakistan wants whole of India and does not accept Hindus rule.What can be done ?
It is not India ’s enmity towards Pakistan but Pakistan’s hostility towards India.Pakistani boost themselves as descendent of Moghuls and claim the right of ruling all over India as done by Akbar in 1600.It is their final wish which keeps the fires of enmity and hostility live from six decades.In INDIA, congress govt has taught Pakistan as a differeny country even though it was a part of India in recent past. Younger generation does not know this fact. While in Pakistani Madarsa teach that Sikhs and Hindus are our dushman and Kafirs and kill them instantly.This is a difference in attitude of both country.Pakistani were never sons of soil of Indian Sindhu culture. They were foreigners and attackers and looters.Nadir shah, Taimurlang and Mahmood Gazanavi and Abdali, Ghori were not Indians.But whole of Punjab belonged to India where Raja
Poras and king Dahir ruled in Sindh.Pakistani are a fighting and martial race and they can not understand the meaning of peace.Their generations wiped out only in fighting and looting and ruling.From this you can estimate future of Pakistan. East Pakistan has gone, now next is Balochistan and then Sindh and Pakhtunistan.US is very cleverly utilising the fighting qualities of Punjabis and Pathans and Baluchs.Americans understand the value of their blood and preserve it while Pakistani blood is wasted in fighting muslims only.
No counter-comments on my genuine comments from any so called patriotic Pakistani yet.That means my assessment about pakistan and its attitude is correct.It is surprising that even after 63 years of getting seperation from parent country India, you Pakistanis never sleep properly without ab-using and dreaming harming India. Be Happy with whatever you got in your lot.Develop and make prosperous Pakistan in Engineering and Technolgy and beat India in a healthy competition.No point in spreading hatred against India simply because we are Hindus.
You have already lost East Pakistan by your obstinate behaviour.Save remaining parts of Pakistan.Do not allow American presence on your soil.In this computer age of Automation, there is no meaning of marshal races.See Americans.They are not a martial race.But they are economically and technologocally very strong.
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